Apivar and OA vaping

[Floyd]

Morning All,

Quick question, in my previous beekeeping experience, I was fortunate to live in a Varroa free area in the Northwest Highlands, so this is an area where I am least experienced.

The last 2 years in Fife, I have used Thymol and OA trickle. However I now have 4 hives, which look like they will be going into the winter far stronger than previous years. I will also be feeding far less this winter so little opportunity for thymol, as reducing down from 2 BB will provide ample stores.

So the question is. Do you still use Apivar/Apistan strips and then treat with OA vape as a compliment, or is the vaping a a cure all on its own. If so how often will vaping be done and when (Does anyone have a definitive guide to vaping as there seems to be differing opinions online)

Should vaping be done from the top or bottom, as I now have UFE, I will need to install some type of vape eke.

Many thanks, and have a good day.

Lee

 

[Amari]

This is what I do after gleaning info from the forum over the years:
For the last few years in late summer I have treated with Amitraz, which has a low risk of inducing mite resistance. This year, by way of a change, I am going to vape OA x3 at five day intervals - to cover the mite brood cycle. no complimentary treatment.
I too have UFEs so I vape through a hole in the thick-rim side of the cover board.

 

[drdrday]

I have tried to use only OA vaping in the past, but wasn't entirely convinced that it always got the job done. You need to be very consistent in vaping at regular intervals throughout a brood period (I used to do 3 vapes, at 5 day intervals), but also aware that if you're still getting high drops you may need to continue for longer. However, not only did I find this awkward to fit around work schedules, but I also found that despite treatment, varroa loads got quite high in colonies that didn't have any natural brood breaks during the summer.
I've now settled on using Apivar going into autumn (it goes in as soon as the supers are off), complimented with an OA vape just before Christmas (or when the weather suggests the brood nest is likely to be smallest). I'm always open to change, but for me this is working really well at the moment.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

This is what I do after gleaning info from the forum over the years:
For the last few years in late summer I have treated with Amitraz, which has a low risk of inducing mite resistance. This year, by way of a change, I am going to vape OA x3 at five day intervals - to cover the mite brood cycle. no complimentary treatment.
I too have UFEs so I vape through a hole in the thick-rim side of the cover board.

Why do you consider Amitraz has a low risk of introducing resistance?

 

[Newbeeneil]

If I was the type of beekeeper that vaped as varroa control, I’m sure this, that arrived on my doorstep would sort me out for a few years.

 

[Amari]

Why do you consider Amitraz has a low risk of introducing resistance?

I am swayed by a recent observation from the ex-chairman (a small-scale bee farmer) of my local association:

Dear Member
I've just received this observation from Kevin:
The issue with thymol treatments is that they have lower effectiveness generally. Also the strips if propolised don’t work at all. Similar with trays - if the bees chuck out quickly.
I’ve found Apivar the best and I know a beefarmer with 1200 hives who has used for 15 years without issue. If you trickle with oxalic in winter that will take care of alternating of treatments.
Carol Williamson
Secretary, WSBKA

Everything I've read suggests that resistance to amitraz (Apivar) is much less common than resistance to tau-fluvalinate (Apistan).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pete Little reported quite a bit of resistance. I wonder what the situation is now at Exmoor Bees ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am swayed by a recent observation from the ex-chairman (a small-scale bee farmer) of my local association:

Dear Member
I've just received this observation from Kevin:
The issue with thymol treatments is that they have lower effectiveness generally. Also the strips if propolised don’t work at all. Similar with trays - if the bees chuck out quickly.
I’ve found Apivar the best and I know a beefarmer with 1200 hives who has used for 15 years without issue. If you trickle with oxalic in winter that will take care of alternating of treatments.
Carol Williamson
Secretary, WSBKA

Everything I've read suggests that resistance to amitraz (Apivar) is much less common than resistance to tau-fluvalinate (Apistan).

so a case of third hand 'an expert beekeeper said' hearsay rather than plain hard facts?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

so a case of third hand 'an expert beekeeper said' hearsay rather than plain hard facts?

Perhaps yet another case where asking the question "is experienced the same thing as competent" needs consideration?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pete Little reported quite a bit of resistance.

and if it came from Pete, you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't just his personal observations but data gleaned from many other beekeepers' experiences.

 

[Eyeman]

My penny worth (two cents) opinion. A strategy to avoid selecting for resistance is to use alternate treatments to knock back the mite population. So Apivar late summer & if resistant mites persist the mid winter OA seems logical.

 

[Erichalfbee]

and if it came from Pete, you can bet your bottom dollar it wasn't just his personal observations but data gleaned from many other beekeepers' experiences.

Here you are

 

[Erichalfbee]

This was his last post

 

[Eyeman]

This is the conclusion of the two studies I’ve found into resistance to Amitraz.
Our findings confirm that amitraz resistance occurs in patches or “islands of resistance”, with a less severe reduction in treatment efficacy compared to pyrethroid resistance or coumaphos resistance in Varroa mite

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I feel we/ourselves have been relying on Amitraz for too long now, since it became available as its use is so easy.
Dose can be split for nucs which is very cost effective, my SBI says not for Apistan but two strips is too much for a nuc.
My winter losses are creeping up, but only by the odd percentage, but I am seeing more varroa when I carry out our final checks.
Resistance is my gut feeling, alongside antidotal evidence from others.
This year all colonies & nucs are having Apistan with once a week vaping for five weeks, then the usual Christmas blast.
We will see if there's a difference and report here.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I feel we/ourselves have been relying on Amitraz for too long now, since it became available as its use is so easy.
Dose can be split for nucs which is very cost effective, my SBI says not for Apistan but two strips is too much for a nuc.
My winter losses are creeping up, but only by the odd percentage, but I am seeing more varroa when I carry out our final checks.
Resistance is my gut feeling, alongside antidotal evidence from others.
This year all colonies & nucs are having Apistan with once a week vaping for five weeks, then the usual Christmas blast.
We will see if there's a difference and report here.

Over reliance coupled with improper dosage/use created the previous problems with hard/synthetic treatments. I see nothing to stop it repeating with amitraz etc.

 

[Swarm]

Yes but do we have any hard evidence such as published figures collected from a few years of study?

 

[Rory Fields]

If I was the type of beekeeper that vaped as varroa control, I’m sure this, that arrived on my doorstep would sort me out for a few years.
View attachment 41128

Gulp. If I was a beekeeper who used such things and bought a 25kg tub, how many years would it (hypothetically ofc) last!?

 

[Newbeeneil]

Gulp. If I was a beekeeper who used such things and bought a 25kg tub, how many years would it (hypothetically ofc) last!?

It would if course depend on how many hives you hypothetically treated!