APIFONDA Feeding

[bobh]

I have put a slab of Apifonda on top of the brood frames in a DADANT hive, but have had to put a 2" spacer frame on top of the brood box then the top board. This leaves a lot of air space. Will the bees get cold ? Will the bees try to fill the space with comb?
Would it have been preferable to put the top board on top of the brood box (as normal), then put the Apifonda on top of the 'top board' ?

 

[itma]

Bob, first thing is that your bees ought not to be needing fondant at this time of year.
Second thing is that with massive Dadant hives, you should have LOTS of stores in the brood box, and ought not to be needing fondant even at the very end of the winter!

Some would routinely feed fondant whether or not the bees need it.
Which seems wrong to me. The long-term goal is to have the brood box mainly clear for brood in the spring - excess unused stores is a principal reason for early swarming!

If feeding fondant, the two options are to put it on the topbars (either a thin layer, not much in there, or a fat slab in an eke) where the bees can easily access it, or above the crownboard where the bees access is much harder when the weather is really cold.
My personal preference is the eke (if fondant is needed, it needs to be both plentiful and accessible) with an (of course) no-hole crownboard with insulation above.
But they must have had a really pathetic autumn's forage for them to be needing fondant before Christmas.
So I think the need for fondant (or frame shuffling) should be assessed at Oxalic time, when the hive is open anyway. They really shouldn't need it before then. However, if your hives really are light right now ...

 

[The Drone Ranger]

I have put a slab of Apifonda on top of the brood frames in a DADANT hive, but have had to put a 2" spacer frame on top of the brood box then the top board. This leaves a lot of air space. Will the bees get cold ? Will the bees try to fill the space with comb?
Would it have been preferable to put the top board on top of the brood box (as normal), then put the Apifonda on top of the 'top board' ?

Hi Bobh
I see your in France
How is the temperature at the moment ?
Are the bees flying during the day
When you lift the crown board are they clustered or loose ?

The reason I ask is things up here in Chilly Scotland might be be very different so it's not easy to say for sure

If there are good daytime temperatures and the bees are flying then it's ok to put the fondant on the crown board above a feed hole

If they are not flying out but the winter cluster has not been formed yet then I would put it on the top bars with an eke spacer

If the bees are in the winter cluster then I would not put the fondant on until the cluster breaks up again in Spring

As itma says though unless they are very short of stores fondant should not be needed yet

 

[Limousin Lass]

This is my 10 day forecast temps, I wouldn't open a hive in these temps but I only started this year and know nowt!
Température minimale 0 2 2 4 -2 1 -1 -1 0 0
Température maximale 8 8 9 7 5 4 4 3 4 5
Température minimale au sol -3 1 0 3 -5 0 -3 -3 -2 -2
All with a good NE breeze

 

[Midland Beek]

You will get a mess of wild comb in that 2in space. You could have put the fondant above a rigid wire queen excluder, but below an empty super. This will give you an empty super full of wild comb and even more space. Thirdly, you could put the fondant above a crownboard, which is probably the best option.

Feeding fondant is bad practice and troublesome.

 

[whoosling]

I've just put some fondant on my hives because they were very light - should I have ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If they need food then yes, fondant is the way to go now till Spring

 

[Limousin Lass]

Feeding fondant is bad practice and troublesome.

Why?

 

[Luminos]

Feeding fondant is bad practice and troublesome.

Better than starving bees though

 

[The Drone Ranger]

This is my 10 day forecast temps, I wouldn't open a hive in these temps but I only started this year and know nowt!
Température minimale 0 2 2 4 -2 1 -1 -1 0 0
Température maximale 8 8 9 7 5 4 4 3 4 5
Température minimale au sol -3 1 0 3 -5 0 -3 -3 -2 -2
All with a good NE breeze

Hi Bobh
Even in a cold spell you can lift the crown board and look in there if it's dry weather but you would only do it if you need to .

The temps look too low to put the fondant on top of the crown board

If the bees are not very short of supplies I would just wait until spring and put the fondant above the crown board with a feed hole

Midland Beek is making the point that it's best to get the feeding done earlier on so the bees have enough stores in the combs for Winter.

Ther are some good threads on here about weighing the hive to give you some idea how much the bees have by way of stores

Fondant on the top bars can make a terrible mess if the bees are not active enough to use it

 

[Arfermo]

Bob, first thing is that your bees ought not to be needing fondant at this time of year.
Second thing is that with massive Dadant hives, you should have LOTS of stores in the brood box, and ought not to be needing fondant even at the very end of the winter!

Some would routinely feed fondant whether or not the bees need it.
Which seems wrong to me. The long-term goal is to have the brood box mainly clear for brood in the spring - excess unused stores is a principal reason for early swarming!

If feeding fondant, the two options are to put it on the topbars (either a thin layer, not much in there, or a fat slab in an eke) where the bees can easily access it, or above the crownboard where the bees access is much harder when the weather is really cold.
My personal preference is the eke (if fondant is needed, it needs to be both plentiful and accessible) with an (of course) no-hole crownboard with insulation above.
But they must have had a really pathetic autumn's forage for them to be needing fondant before Christmas.
So I think the need for fondant (or frame shuffling) should be assessed at Oxalic time, when the hive is open anyway. They really shouldn't need it before then. However, if your hives really are light right now ...

Hi itma - would agree with you most times but I felt obliged to put Apifonda on a weak new season colony with not much stores in the hope they can be dragged through to spring. Optimistic to the end. It's in a shallow eke direct on to the frame tops of course. Can't explain why all other hives are bulging but this one wasn't/isn't and no sign of disease etc. Sublimation of oxalic just after Xmas will tell me wot's wot.

 

[Luminos]

Can you narrow down your location, bobh - temperatures in, say, Calais, (north) differ considerably to those in, say, Antibes (south).

 

[bobh]

Re temperatures here in SW France, nightime is dropping to -2C some nights and daytime not much more than 14. All 3 of my hives were new swarms this year in May. One hive only got going when the Ivy pollen was about, making 10 super frames of honey and plenty of stores in the brood box. The other two hives struggled to fill 7 out of 9 frames in the brood box, mix of stores and brood. - These are the two hives I have put Apifonda in.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Hi Bobh

14C daytime is good, you could just put the crown board back to normal position and put the fondant over a feed hole
Good luck with whatever you decide to do

 

[Chris Luck]

Plenty of people do overwinter 6 frame Dadant rushettes here "in south west" France without extra feeding until early spring so number of frames isn't the be all and end all.

I certainly wouldn't want to be considering fondant now and although it's too late and the time has passed I would have been feeding plenty of syrup through Sept and Oct which I had to do with 7 of mine this year that had late Queens.

As mentioned you don't want a big gap over your frames. Better to put your crown board back on if we get a warm day after this cold spell hopefully passes, open your feeder hole and put the fondant on the crown board with a slit in the wrapper over the hole.

Chris

 

[Heather]

Malpractice here then.
All my hives were given gallons of 2:1 syrup until I felt it was too late for them to deal with it without it 'going off'.
All still felt a little light as I was able to tilt them from the ground with 2 hands, so all have a slab of fondant on now. Doubt it will harden as only the area above the crown board opening is exposed.
I would rather not have bees die of starvation, as I feel that has been my responsibility, and my malpractice.

 

[MJBee]

The French Dadant hive is top bee space, so all you need is a piece of plywood with a 5cm diameter hole in it placed on top of the brood box, then the Apifonda covered with the French "feeder/cover board"

If you can devise some method of weighing the hives a Dadant in winter configuration (floor, brood, cover board and roof) then a weight of between 35 and 40kg will safely see then through until mid February and depending on the severity of the winter may be enough right through to Spring.

Re your location, SW France covers a huge area and variations in local climate. A "code postal" doesn't compromise security but helps when giving weather related advice.