Anybody got images of American and European Foulbrrod on slides

[BeeJayBee]

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides, because you need to be licenced to handle those bacteria and must do so in a bio-security location.

Good point. I didn't really think my idea through did I?

 

[Hivemaker.]

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides,

The microscopy course myself and a few others did was run by the NBU and taught by Mike Brown and three others,we made up slides with AFB,EFB,Nosema, Acarine, ect.

 

[Ruary]

The microscopy course myself and a few others did was run by the NBU and taught by Mike Brown and three others,we made up slides with AFB,EFB,Nosema, Acarine, ect.

But is that the usual type of microscopy course?

 

[Chris B]

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides, because you need to be licenced to handle those bacteria and must do so in a bio-security location.

Upon diagnosis of EFB you get a standstill notice. But you can still manage the colony until the time of treatment (usually a week or so later). You just can't move anything away without a licence.

 

[susbees]

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides, because you need to be licenced to handle those bacteria and must do so in a bio-security location.

Listen to the voice of reason - if you choose to take your microscope onto the infected apiary and make a slide that I think is your prerogative. But you must bag up the scope, slide and all your protective gear and leave ti impounded. It is not ok to take infected or possibly infected material off-apiary.

 

[susbees]

The microscopy course myself and a few others did was run by the NBU and taught by Mike Brown and three others,we made up slides with AFB,EFB,Nosema, Acarine, ect.

If run by the NBU means at York in a secure environment then fine

So the question is who can legally hold slides with AFB/EFB material on them?

 

[itma]

Listen to the voice of reason - if you choose to take your microscope onto the infected apiary and make a slide that I think is your prerogative. But you must bag up the scope, slide and all your protective gear and leave ti impounded. It is not ok to take infected or possibly infected material off-apiary.

Good plain common sense - if you should happen to find what you were looking for.

 

[Chris B]

It is not ok to take infected or possibly infected material off-apiary.

You have to. Otherwise how can you send a sample to York for diagnosis as mentioned in the DEFRA booklet?

There is also no mention in the Control Order of what constitutes the boundary of your apiary. If it's your home apiary it seems quite reasonable to me the boundary of your property is the most logical way to see things. The regs do leave room for a bit of common sense to be applied.

So the question is who can legally hold slides with AFB/EFB material on them?

Anybody can. What you can't do is keep them or move them about freely. Same applies if you make up slides at home. When the (home) apiary is treated they would need to be sterilised or destroyed. I think the regs give you 10 days from the date of the standstill order to the supervised treatment.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The course was at plymouth university in a science lab, and of course you have to take samples away from the apairy to test, or send away for testing,never taken a microscope to an apiary yet to make up slides,not heard of that one before.
I get on fairly well with our local inspector being we have some of our bees in adjoining fields, and he lives only four miles away, he has often asked me to give him a hand with other peoples bees, and his own, not a very pleasant job when having to destroy some, but you do learn quite a bit about it. I use the small plastic Eppendorf tubes to take samples in, number each one plus the hive the sample came from.

Of course until you get home, or back to where your microscope is, you don't know whether the sample is contaminated or not, (usually not) and the bee inspector would not appreciate, nor have the time, to be called out every day that you decide you want a single larvae testing.
Although someone did try that stunt once i hear, called out the bee inspector every single day.


Edit.. At the end of the course held by the NBU we were all allowed to take the microscope slides of EFB & AFB that we had made up, home with us, the material is dead, as it is flamed when making up the slides.

 

[susbees]

LFD. Simples.

Except with awkward EFB of course.

 

[Hivemaker.]

LFD. Simples.

Except with awkward EFB of course.

If you have AFB it is so obvious and easy to detect you don't really need a sample, so that only leaves "awkward" EFB, and as mentioned earlier LFD devices are too expensive for routine testing.

 

[Chris B]

Your statutory responsibilities are very simple:
1. Notify suspected cases of any notifiable pest/disease immediately.
2. Comply with resulting standstill notice which comes into force automatically as soon as you suspect something, not just when the postman delivers it. The Order makes provision for exceptions, the obvious one being sending off a sample. The Order uses the word "premises" not "apiary" (which is interesting as last year I had 2 apiaries on one farm, one with a case of EFB and the other not. I also have apiaries on another farm that is 4 miles from one end to the other).
3. Comply with the treatment notice within the specified timescale. The Order doesn't specify the timescale (I've just checked), that's down to the "authorised person" i.e. the bee inspector, but 10 days appears to be the policy.

 

[Hivemaker.]

1. Notify suspected cases of any notifiable pest/disease immediately.

That would fit the case that i mentioned earlier, instead of using common sense, they acted to the letter and called the inspector out every day, easy if you have a lot of colonies, even if the inspector had given all your colonies a clean bill of health two days earlier, EFB can be so fickle in the early stages so may not be spotted, so by definition every time you see just one deformed or off colour larvae and take it for testing, you suspect a problem, otherwise you would not bother to test.

 

[Chris B]

LFD devices are too expensive for routine testing.

That's true, but it's also possible to get a job lot from Vita for about half the price that Th**rnes sell them. £3.72 each is easier to swallow than £6.62 + VAT + postage. I'm pretty sure a BKA could set up an account with Vita.

 

[Hivemaker.]

That's true, but it's also possible to get a job lot from Vita for about half the price that Th**rnes sell them. £3.72 each is easier to swallow than £6.62 + VAT + postage. I'm pretty sure a BKA could set up an account with Vita.

I think about £1.00-£1.50 each would be a reasonable price Chris.
Or dished out free, by using of some of that EU funding.

 

[Chris B]

I think about £1.00-£1.50 each would be a reasonable price Chris.
Or dished out free, by using of some of that EU funding.

That would be good. They might not even need the EU money as it would probably end up being a net saving.

I used a fair few last year. Way more negative results than positives, but every neg. saved an expensive visit from the bee inspector or a relatively expensive diagnosis in the lab - they certainly should pay for them.

 

[Ruary]

If you have AFB it is so obvious and easy to detect you don't really need a sample, so that only leaves "awkward" EFB, and as mentioned earlier LFD devices are too expensive for routine testing.

If I could post a photo onto this forum without having previously loaded it onto the web, I could show you a picture of a frame which at first glance shows a perfect brood pattern, on closer examination some (about 5 cell cappings) were discoloured.
This was not so obvious and easy to detect that I showed the picture at last year' apimondia disease seminar and also at Greenmount.

 

[Hivemaker.]

If I could post a photo onto this forum without having previously loaded it onto the web

If you still have the photograph Ruary, perhaps you could scan it, then get it onto the forum that way.

 

[Ruary]

Edit.. At the end of the course held by the NBU we were all allowed to take the microscope slides of EFB & AFB that we had made up, home with us, the material is dead, as it is flamed when making up the slides.

I wonder whether that is the case for AFB spores which can take a lot of heat before they are killed off the glass does get any hotter than 'hand hot' with two or three passes through the flame.
I have my reference slides mounted with Canada Balsam and a cover glass.

 

[Ruary]

http://http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=496&pictureid=2642 and http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=496&pictureid=2641 and http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/picture.php?albumid=496&pictureid=2640