Anybody got images of American and European Foulbrrod on slides

[snoop]

Has anybody got images of European and American fould brood on a slide I could use to show a class?

 

[Sean.]

If you don't get any other responses, you could contact the National Bee Unit, who are part of FERA and ask them

 

[MuswellMetro]

you need x100 oil objective at 1000X, always ask one of the NDB microscope centre

 

[itma]

Has anybody got images of European and American fould brood on a slide I could use to show a class?

Slide?
Microscope or projector? Or Powerpoint?


There are plenty of images on the Beebase website.
This pdf has quite a few https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=7
but I'm not sure whether you are looking for something in a more specific format ...

 

[snoop]

The 2 photos on that website are just purple clumps.
I am looking for something I can put up on either power point or computer image as to what a slide that had either or both diseases on it would look like if you were asked to check a frame or bees under a microscope

 

[Hivemaker.]

The 2 photos on that website are just purple clumps.
I am looking for something I can put up on either power point or computer image as to what a slide that had either or both diseases on it would look like if you were asked to check a frame or bees under a microscope

I have separate microscope slides with both EFB & AFB, but you test the mid gut contents of a larvae for EFB and the dead larvae in cells for AFB, on a microscope slide using oil immersion, you don't put a frame or bees under the microscope...so is it just some pictures of infected frames of brood you are after.

 

[snoop]

I don't have frames of contaminated bees to take a sample of to put on a microscope slide to test. I was looking for the pictures you would see through the microscope to show what both would look like so they could be identifed. Both photos on that defra document just show blobs ( stained with a purple stain )

 

[Hivemaker.]

There are some pictures here you may be able to use.

AFB https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=P...cCsG50QXY1IDgDg&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=627

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...oG4i40QWqtoG4Bg&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=627

 

[itma]

Two comments.

Firstly that one wouldn't use microscopy to distinguish between the two diseases.
One would be using the microscope to look for specific "purple blobs" in a specific (and different for the two diseases) test sample.

Secondly, that the most simple and reliable way for a beek (or official Inspector) to confirm AFB or EFB is by using a test kit rather similar to a home pregnancy test kit.
These (for AFB or for EFB - different products) retail at well under £10 each in the UK.
http://www.vita-europe.com/products/efb-diagnostic-test-kit/

 

[Hivemaker.]

Secondly, that the most simple and reliable way for a beek (or official Inspector) to confirm AFB or EFB is by using a test kit rather similar to a home pregnancy test kit.

But the OP wants microscope pictures of the diseases to show to a class, they are not going to see what it looks like with a lateral flow device.

And 2nd, those devices are far too expensive if you have to buy them,and were not very accurate for diagnosing efb at one time, mainly the way they were being used.

I would much sooner trust the microscope for accuracy in this.

 

[snoop]

Thanks hive maker

 

[BeeJayBee]

Has anybody in your club done the microscopy course? If so, would they have any slides you could use?

 

[Ruary]

Go to http://http://www.*************/gallery/view_images.php?tag=21 where you'll get my photos of AFB.
But the trouble with showing microphotos onto a screen is that the bacteria are then look much much larger than they do through the microscope.

The censor will not let me direct you to the British Beekeepers Association Gallery

 

[Ruary]

Has anybody in your club done the microscopy course? If so, would they have any slides you could use?

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides, because you need to be licenced to handle those bacteria and must do so in a bio-security location.

 

[snoop]

The link appears blocked

 

[itma]

But the OP wants microscope pictures of the diseases to show to a class, they are not going to see what it looks like with a lateral flow device.

It just looks like "blobs" down a microscope! (the OP said)
My point was that I didn't think that a Powerpoint slide was adequate training for diagnosis (by microscopy). I thought that it would be better to encourage the class to do something more reliable, requiring less capital equipment (no expensive microscope needed) and requiring less operator experience and judgement.

And 2nd, those devices are far too expensive if you have to buy them,and were not very accurate for diagnosing efb at one time, mainly the way they were being used.

They are now pretty cheap. Under £6 at Pains, under £8 at Thorns.
Nowadays they ARE considered accurate.
To the extent that the SBI (here at least) uses them (not a microscope) as final confirmation of his macroscopic observational diagnosis.

I would much sooner trust the microscope for accuracy in this

I'd suggest that it is the accuracy of the operator, rather than just the instrument, that is the critical link.
Trust someone only shown a Powerpoint slide? Really?
Much easier - and thus IMHO more effective - to train someone to confirm diagnosis of foul brood with a test kit rather than with a microscope.

 

[itma]

I don't think the usual microscopy course in UK handles the making of foul brood slides, because you need to be licenced to handle those bacteria and must do so in a bio-security location.

Long way from Ireland, but Kent beeks have the opportunity of a training afternoon at KSRC with the RBI (plus Bob Smith) on exactly this subject - on 19th June.

This 3rd course in the microscopy series will look at the causative agents in the brood diseases AFB, EFB and Chalk brood with the aim of being able to identify these very small bacteria and fungal spores. The course will cover the set-up of the compound microscope with oil-immersion objectives. At the end of this course, delegates will be able to set up a compound microscope for high magnification work using an oil-immersion objective and be able to recognise the bacteria associated with both AFB and EFB.
They will also recognise the various stages in the sporulation of the Chalk brood fungus, Ascophaera apis.

http://ksrcbees.org.uk/?page_id=4

Slightly more than a Powerpoint slide!



/// The morning session is on observational diagnosis of brood diseases.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Slide?
Microscope or projector? Or Powerpoint?


There are plenty of images on the Beebase website.
This pdf has quite a few https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=7
but I'm not sure whether you are looking for something in a more specific format ...

The 2 photos on that website are just purple clumps.
I am looking for something I can put up on either power point or computer image as to what a slide that had either or both diseases on it would look like if you were asked to check a frame or bees under a microscope

There are some pictures here you may be able to use.

AFB https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=P...cCsG50QXY1IDgDg&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=627

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...oG4i40QWqtoG4Bg&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=627

It just looks like "blobs" down a microscope! (the OP said)
Much easier - and thus IMHO more effective - to train someone to confirm diagnosis of foul brood with a test kit rather than with a microscope.

But the OP wants microscope pictures of the diseases to show to a class, they are not going to see what it looks like with a lateral flow device.

The links i put up provide reasonably clear pictures of the bacteria and spores for these diseases, this is what the OP is asking for, not to give his class a lesson on the use of a lateral flow device, they come with instructions anyway.

Of course if the person wants to learn microscopy regards BD properly, then they should go on a course.

And as an aside, i still consider them way too expensive to be buying for my own use.

 

[itma]

The links i put up provide reasonably clear pictures of the bacteria and spores for these diseases, this is what the OP is asking for, not to give his class a lesson on the use of a lateral flow device, they come with instructions anyway.

And as an aside, i still consider them way too expensive to be buying for my own use.

Yes indeed, that was what he was asking.
I was suggesting that the test kit should feature much more prominently than the microscope, if the aim is a reliable diagnosis with a minimum of operator training and investment in expensive hardware.


Regarding the expense, our SBI, in demonstrating the kit, was determined to drive home the message that if any foul brood was suspected, then he wanted to be called ASAP. No messing with our test kits, use his.
Situation may be different in Ireland.
The kits are certainly cheap enough that local Associations could hold a couple in stock, to be immediately available to members.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The kits are certainly cheap enough that local Associations could hold a couple in stock, to be immediately available to members.

When we had a problem in this area years ago, i would of needed around 70 or more of those kits a season, as i did a lot of testing to be sure they were okay, microscope was much cheaper, and more reliable than the LF devices back at that time. We have no problems now thank goodness, but i am ever vigilant and do still test a few times each season, even though i am pretty (99.9%) sure the results will be negative. Wheel me down a load of free lateral flow devices and i will use them.