Another Post Mortem Request

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I thought you had a TBH? surely you wouldn't be feeding fondant from above the top bars? so how would fondant get into virtually all the cells?
That's right was suspended from a bar adjacent to the cluster. (A bodged up frame feeder basically).

Edit: the full story is that initially I drilled a hole in a top bar above the cluster and put over that - but then the cluster moved and I didn't want to chase them with more holes - and then some advice on here I was better with a frame feeder in a tbh.
 
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Isn't this a false dichotomy? The answers is all of the above, with the varroa and the removal of stores as the two key factors. The population had a shortened lifespan due to varroa infestation in the cells, thus the population got smaller, and weaker, than it would otherwise have been, so couldn't travel to the food you provided, or keep itself warm enough.

A little bit like the analogy of a plane which runs out of fuel at 30,000 feet. What killed the passengers? The fuel running out or the plane hitting the ground? Not a perfect analogy in this situation I know.
Yes and somewhat academic too you could argue - dead is dead after all. But keen to understand what I'm seeing. Initial suggestions were so adamant about the poop and evident high varroa. Also, if I'm honest the site is so tragic I somehow prefer the idea of isolation starvation/freezing; it feel a little less negligent (which is absolutely a pointless distinction I suppose).
 
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Initial suggestions were so adamant about the poop and evident high varroa. Also, if I'm honest the site is so tragic I somehow prefer the idea of isolation starvation/freezing; it feel a little less negligent (which is absolutely a pointless dichotomy might really be I suppose).
There are mites visible on the bees in the photo.
 
Hi Neil, I remember you telling the forum that your bees were not taking the syrup in the autumn and me thinking something must ail them as mine were taking theirs. From what I gather they went into winter as a small colony with little stores. The BIAS you had in Oct. would represent the full complement of winter bees - perhaps not enough. There are no stores on the frames that I can see, so I am inclined to think they died from starvation/isolation starvation. The frames look too clean for them to have died from PMS, no dead larvae or deformed wings on the adult bees (I only have a small screen though). I do not think all the crumbs in the cells are guanine deposits as they are placed at the ceilings of the cells rather than laying on the floors and they are bright white, but it could be the camera. I think that Dani was joking about tasting the varroa deposits to make sure it was not sugar - I wouldn't. It would appear that they did not have any brood, but I guess that is the result of not having any food. Did you find the queen amongst them? I have copied one of Rusty's photo's to better show guanine deposits. Most colonies that die during the winter die end Feb beginning of March. You are not on your own!
View attachment 24654

Thanks Beeno. This is such an excellent forum - really helpful and yes your memory's correct. I'll look for the Queen today and might tempt a nibble.
 
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Update - this patch of crumble was definitely sweet, JPEG image 8.jpegJPEG image 9.jpeg - and actually, when i checked is under the area I put put the fondant initially. Here and there elsewhere some tasteless waxy stuff.

I'm still struggling to see the varroa others can - I'm sure they are there. Can someone help me get my eye in, here they are spread out, or on the OP comb pics? JPEG image 2.jpegJPEG image 3.jpegJPEG image 4.jpegJPEG image 5.jpegJPEG image.jpeg

Under the cluster, they look liked this, so hungry and feeling the cold. 🙁
JPEG image 6.jpeg

Alcohol wash - just two. Though I can imagine this not valid as once dead they just drop off do they??
JPEG image 10.jpeg

Not found the queen yet - I'll look on the hive floor shortly.
No sign of brood.

Re the death - pretty much accepting it's multifactorial including weakened bees due to late varroa Rx - but it would be helpful to understand what the 'phoretic' load was at their end as, if high, it really impies Randy's OA strips (put in after the vaping in hope of salvaging the situation) were pretty useless for me in this circumstance.

Thanks for any further help/commentary
Cheers
Neil
BIAB
 
Alcohol wash - just two. Though I can imagine this not valid as once dead they just drop off do they??

[...] - but it would be helpful to understand what the 'phoretic' load was at their end as, if high, it really impies Randy's OA strips (put in after the vaping in hope of salvaging the situation) were pretty useless for me in this circumstance.
How many bees were in the wash sample? Randy says he treats if there is more than 1 mite per ½ cup sample (300 bees).
 
How many bees were in the wash sample? Randy says he treats if there is more than 1 mite per ½ cup sample (300 bees).
all of them - 2 cups - probably more than 300/half cup as small (dessicated I guess) and take up more room when active. Say 1500-2000 bees. It's perfectly possible the dead mites fell off the dead bees before making it into the washing cup though I suppose.
 
all of them - 2 cups - probably more than 300/half cup as small (dessicated I guess) and take up more room when active. Say 1500-2000 bees. It's perfectly possible the dead mites fell off the dead bees before making it into the washing cup though I suppose.
Personally... after the treatments you did for varroa and having looked at the photos I didn't think varroa was the prime cause.. I think what you are seeing is the result of queen failure... not enough winter bees and as the colony dwindled (as they do naturally over winter) there was colony failure. Top bar hives tend to be thin walled and it takes a big winter colony or lots of additional insulation to get them through winter... TBH are notorious for winter losses when they are not well wrapped. Also did you adjust the position of the stores going into winter ? They need to be at one side of the brood nest to reduce the risk of them becoming isolated from them. The bottom line is ..they are dead . Its sad... you may never know what the cause was... could be multiple factors ... put it aside, chalk it up to experience, take into account all the things it could be .. make a note for doing things differently next year and move on. The new season is but a whisker away ...lots to do and think about in terms of live bees ... leave the dead ones as a memory..
 
Because tasting things is strangely satisfying!
I saw someone taste Hiveclean the other week on the premise that she would not give her bees something she had not tried herself. Judging by her facial expression I think she regretted it!
 
I saw someone taste Hiveclean the other week on the premise that she would not give her bees something she had not tried herself. Judging by her facial expression I think she regretted it!
Good job I don’t taste where my bees get their water from, then
 

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