Another lost colony story

[ericbeaumont]

a colony that was principally the remnants of summer bees and not the winter bees you would want in place. Death in those cicumstances could be inevitable.

Yep, I agree.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Today, in the sunshine, I was out near my paltry four hives and every one of them was busy. This is my fifth winter without loss. I'm not crowing here, just stating a fact and feeling happy that even though I am not really an experienced beekeeper, whatever it is I do seems to work for over-wintering the bees. I am aware that I do have the advantage of mostly mild weather here in Cornwall but the bees do have to cope with incredibly damp conditions, even in some summers. The guy in the video [and the bees] seems to have to deal with god-awful weather, it's a wonder he ever gets bees through the winter.

 

[North End Bees]

The guy in the video [and the bees] seems to have to deal with god-awful weather, it's a wonder he ever gets bees through the winter.

People keep bees successfully in seemingly very inhospital places. It wasn't just the weather, it was the way he did, or didn't, adapt his beekeeping to it.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Indeed, Finman keeps his in Finland! Perhaps they borrow fur from the bumblebees

 

[North End Bees]

Indeed, Finman keeps his in Finland! Perhaps they borrow fur from the bumblebees

That and the floor heating he puts in

 

[manek]

You see ... this is what worries me - clearly there are signs of varroa in the photos of the frames so (and I'm in no way being judgemental) either you did not carry out the treatments correctly or one or the other did not do the job it should have done.

I think that the drop on the board is probably not the best indicator ... as you know, my bees are not treated for varroa but I do regular sugar rolls which give me an accurate view of the varroa levels in the colony.

In the light of your experience perhaps relying on the drop on the inspection board is not sufficiently reliable and you should be doing a sugar roll after treatment to be sure.

I would also be looking back at how the treatments you did were carried out... MAQS is a notoriously difficult treatment to get right .. it has form for killing bees and affecting queens. If the treatment affected your queen at that critical time when she needed to be laying up winter bees then it may have affected the colony adversely going in to winter and the resultant death may not have been solely attributable to varroa. The signs of varroa in the frame photos may have been residual from pre-and post treatment at the end of August and what you saw was a colony that was principally the remnants of summer bees and not the winter bees you would want in place. Death in those cicumstances could be inevitable. The lack of a varroa drop after your December vape would also be explained.

A weakened colony is stressed and susceptible to all sorts of influence that weaken it further, once the downward spiral starts it is surprising how quickly a colony fails. I'm sure we have all seen it in some form or another.

Perhaps a rethink of how you treat next season is the positive to take from this situation and put the loss behind you - bees die, it happens - move on.

Thanks for the advice. I think I know what I got wrong so it won't be repeated.

However, as a coda to the story, I left varroa boards on for five days under my two remaining colonies. The colony closest (one metre away) to the failed colony showed a drop of eight mites, the other three metres away showed a drop of three.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks for the advice. I think I know what I got wrong so it won't be repeated.

However, as a coda to the story, I left varroa boards on for five days under my two remaining colonies. The colony closest (one metre away) to the failed colony showed a drop of eight mites, the other three metres away showed a drop of three.

Interesting, but remember it's March. The bee population is at the minimum. There has probably been a long brood break over winter. Dying bees will have taken mites out of the hive. And many of the remaining mites will have gratefully jumped into the brood cells that the queen has started to lay. So you'd expect very low drops at this time of year.

It's the mite per bee ratio that matters.

I did 48 hour boards on 3 hives this week and got 0,0,1.

Doesn't mean anything about whether you had a mite problem in autumn, if you see what I mean?

 

[manek]

Interesting, but remember it's March. The bee population is at the minimum. There has probably been a long brood break over winter. Dying bees will have taken mites out of the hive. And many of the remaining mites will have gratefully jumped into the brood cells that the queen has started to lay. So you'd expect very low drops at this time of year.

It's the mite per bee ratio that matters.

I did 48 hour boards on 3 hives this week and got 0,0,1.

Doesn't mean anything about whether you had a mite problem in autumn, if you see what I mean?

Completely understand your point.

 

[pargyle]

Completely understand your point.

Best thing is either to do a vape and an accelerated mite count ... you could do that as soon as you wish ...or wait a week or two until it gets a little warmer and then do a sugar roll either of those will give you a better indication of the true mite load and once you know you can react accordingly. Hopefully it will be a low figure and you won't need to treat further ...

 

[Earthboy]

View attachment 24827
So here are the photos - on a quick look through the BB, no brood, one empty supersedure cell, plenty stores...

In America, the first thing that comes to my mind is pesticide death although I wonder who could have sprayed anything surrounding your colony in the hood during winter.

 

[manek]

In America, the first thing that comes to my mind is pesticide death although I wonder who could have sprayed anything surrounding your colony in the hood during winter.

But it would be unusual for one hive to die completely while the other two seem fine.

 

[Earthboy]

But it would be unusual for one hive to die completely while the other two seem fine.

Agreed. Although different colonies, at times, can work different floral sources in the same vicinity as I have seen in the past.

 

[North End Bees]

But it would be unusual for one hive to die completely while the other two seem fine.

Agreed. Although different colonies, at times, can work different floral sources in the same vicinity as I have seen in the past.

A friend told me that she once had one hive in an apiary of over a dozen poisoned. A load of dead bees out the front and all other hives acting normally.
She sent them off for testing and poisoning was confirmed. The farmer admitted spraying that morning and I think she said she got something for compensation.
Luckily it was the only single colony in the whole apiary that went to that field.

 

[Earthboy]

Bingo!

 

[North End Bees]

Yes, but it was only the foragers in her case.
I was just saying in relation to bees working different sources and being affected differently.

 

[Earthboy]

You do realize foragers exchange the nectar with the young house bees, mouth to mouth, so that the latter do the storing while the foragers take off to get more, during which they add enzymes to ripen into honey, right? In fact, the nectar goes through, in and out, of different bees' mouth, thus exposing the entire colony to, say, pesticide-laced nectar source.

 

[North End Bees]

You do realize foragers exchange the nectar with the young house bees, mouth to mouth, so that the latter do the storing while the foragers take off to get more, during which they add enzymes to ripen into honey, right? In fact, the nectar goes through, in and out, of different bees' mouth, thus exposing the entire colony to, say, pesticide-laced nectar source.

I don't know, they probably didn't let them in?

 

[Earthboy]

You mean the guard bees would not let the foragers in because they are bringing in contaminated food? No. Even the foragers did not know the contamination in the floral source in the first place. The guard bees would let even stranger bees in *as far as the latter brings in nectar* unlike humans. To anthropomorphize a bit, why would you say no to a stranger who wants to attribute to your survival and help out your organization?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pesticide poisoning of bees is not that common in the U.K.

 

[BugsInABox]

You do realize foragers exchange the nectar with the young house bees, mouth to mouth, so that the latter do the storing while the foragers take off to get more, during which they add enzymes to ripen into honey, right? In fact, the nectar goes through, in and out, of different bees' mouth, thus exposing the entire colony to, say, pesticide-laced nectar source.

I'm not sure they do it outside the hive entranbce at this time of year (at least in UK)