Amount of brood at this time

[HarryO]

Inspected two hives for stores and found both brood boxes absolutely stuffed with sealed brood some eggs some larvae corner to corner of the frames, no stores in b.boxes. 7 or 8 frames of brood in each hive.
A bit of pollen on the 2 frames without brood. (single National brood box on each hive).
7 frames of unsealed nectar on one hive’s super, 2nd super nothing.
7 frames of part sealed honey in second hive’s super. 2 partial frames unsealed nectar in second super on this hive.
Is it late to have so much brood? I want to take the supers off and give them some feed. So where will they put their stores?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Inspected two hives for stores and found both brood boxes absolutely stuffed with sealed brood some eggs some larvae corner to corner of the frames, no stores in b.boxes. 7 or 8 frames of brood in each hive.
A bit of pollen on the 2 frames without brood. (single National brood box on each hive).
7 frames of unsealed nectar on one hive’s super, 2nd super nothing.
7 frames of part sealed honey in second hive’s super. 2 partial frames unsealed nectar in second super on this hive.
Is it late to have so much brood? I want to take the supers off and give them some feed. So where will they put their stores?

It's August, winter is nowhere near - plenty of time to feed late September into October, wait until they've sealed the frames in the super (or check with a refractometer to see if it's ripe) remove supers, extract, then think about feeding.

 

[HarryO]

Thank you for prompt helpful reply. Saw bees very busy yesterday on big patch of borage and another big patch of golden rod. Very windy up here with strong gusts. Two more hives to check but I think I will relax and have a coffee instead!

 

[Chris Nother]

Been having exactly the same phenomenon here Harry and I think jenkinsbrynmair is spot on - so much talk/books/videos would seem to have us seeing August as the start of winter (the bloody weather here in Ireland would suggest the same at the moment too!!) but I'm finding in this area of lots of wild and garden flowers (lots of variety) and blackberries and little bell heather, that we are getting a little trickle coming in to the hives still and I've taken a chill pill too as per the above advice and decided September is plenty of time!

 

[Murox]

Its just the beginning of autumn really. The current poor weather is a big blip but it will pass.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

That seems leaving things late for varroa treatment, if the supers can’t be left on during treatment. By September isn’t it getting late to treat, in order to prevent “winter bees” being affected by varroa?

 

[beeno]

My Aug. treatment schedule is out of the window this year on account of bees collecting some heather otherwise it would not be much going on forage wise until ivy. I would say my hives are heading for a brood break now having had 6-7 frames of capped brood.

 

[HarryO]

Part of my confusion/uncertainty was deciding whether all this brood was the “winter bees”. If they are that is why I wanted to treat (using MAQS) and feed or possibly just leave any honey they subsequently produce with them for winter.
But if they carry on foraging and the Q carries on laying I will just hold fire on pre-winter procedures and hope the weather is kind to us later on (Sept. time). But I might apply treatment anyway over next week and give feed later when there is room in the brood box. Decisions, decisions.
An old farmer up here thinks we are going to have an Indian summer. He keeps bees and honey crop not brilliant for him up to now so it may just be wishful thinking!

 

[beeno]

Winter bees emerge Sept/Oct because they do not feed brood until spring thereof their longevity 5-6 months as opposed to a summer bee's short lifespan of six weeks or less.

 

[drex]

Winter bees emerge Sept/Oct because they do not feed brood until spring thereof their longevity 5-6 months as opposed to a summer bee's short lifespan of six weeks or less.

I thought it was due to levels of juvenile hormone and size of fat bodies. Your reply suggests that the queen lays no eggs whatsoever from Sept/oct until spring. My queens certainly lay over winter, perhaps having a break Nov/DEc, so who feeds this brood?

 

[HarryO]

I wanted to achieve four things in preparation for winter period.
1. Treat so that varroa reduced and so less affect on any “winter bees” being ‘made’ (both in and out of cell - adult + larvae etc.)
2. Remove any ‘spare honey’ rejigging frames in supers so that supers available for removal and storing away.
3. Feed so colonies have sufficient winter stores.
4. Have these stores stored in the brood box so I could remove all the empty supers.
It seems I jumped the gun. Anyway it looks like I have another 2 to 3 weeks to achieve this, depending on the
vagaries of the weather and any other unforeseens!

 

[drex]

For me the timing of winter prep often depends on timing of harvest. Once the supers are off I then start varroa treatment, using thymol, which is temperature dependent. Once that is over, if needed I feed ( as it is recommended not to feed and treat at same time) . I usually do not harvest what is in brood box, and get a good ivy flow.
Supers coming off tomorrow as there is no flow now.
I do live in the south of country

 

[beeno]

I thought it was due to levels of juvenile hormone and size of fat bodies. Your reply suggests that the queen lays no eggs whatsoever from Sept/oct until spring. My queens certainly lay over winter, perhaps having a break Nov/DEc, so who feeds this brood?

The bees fat bodies are depleted by feeding brood. Yes, they raise small patches of brood, but brood rearing in earnest does not start until the very end of Feb in my locale. These magic little bees can even raise one cycle of brood without any pollen at all in spring by utilising stores in the fat bodies.

 

[HarryO]

For me the timing of winter prep often depends on timing of harvest. Once the supers are off I then start varroa treatment, using thymol, which is temperature dependent. Once that is over, if needed I feed ( as it is recommended not to feed and treat at same time) . I usually do not harvest what is in brood box, and get a good ivy flow.
Supers coming off tomorrow as there is no flow now.
I do live in the south of country

Yes that is a pretty clear routine. It is what I set out to achieve. It just seems I set off too early in the year. Still appears to be forage available up here and brood box still rammed with brood so little space for stores. In fact the two colonies I checked have virtually no stores in the brood box but 6 or 7 frames of uncapped nectar in the super. I took a couple of capped frames off but the refractometer gave a reading of 21.5%, even though capped! Very disappointed and puzzled.

 

[Murox]

Yes that is a pretty clear routine. It is what I set out to achieve. It just seems I set off too early in the year. Still appears to be forage available up here and brood box still rammed with brood so little space for stores. In fact the two colonies I checked have virtually no stores in the brood box but 6 or 7 frames of uncapped nectar in the super. I took a couple of capped frames off but the refractometer gave a reading of 21.5%, even though capped! Very disappointed and puzzled.

Check the calibration.

 

[xray7]

That seems leaving things late for varroa treatment, if the supers can’t be left on during treatment. By September isn’t it getting late to treat, in order to prevent “winter bees” being affected by varroa?

According to a local bee farmer who is also a seasonal bee Inspector whenever his bees are not bringing in honey they are being treated for varroa. Round here where it is almost entirely agricultural decent volumes of Honey have finished by end of July so mid August I start treating for varroa and as a result I haven't had any serious varroa issues in the last ten years.So why delay delay varroa treatment any later than you have to.

 

[beeno]

Yes that is a pretty clear routine. It is what I set out to achieve. It just seems I set off too early in the year. Still appears to be forage available up here and brood box still rammed with brood so little space for stores. In fact the two colonies I checked have virtually no stores in the brood box but 6 or 7 frames of uncapped nectar in the super. I took a couple of capped frames off but the refractometer gave a reading of 21.5%, even though capped! Very disappointed and puzzled.

There is most probably nothing wrong with your refractometer this is a known and common occurrence that capped honey is above the required minimum. I often find that uncapped honey is lower water content than capped, so take care if you are selling honey.

 

[HarryO]

There is most probably nothing wrong with your refractometer this is a known and common occurrence that capped honey is above the required minimum. I often find that uncapped honey is lower water content than capped, so take care if you are selling honey.

No I do not sell - just for family and friends, bartering! Etc.

 

[drex]

There is most probably nothing wrong with your refractometer this is a known and common occurrence that capped honey is above the required minimum. I often find that uncapped honey is lower water content than capped, so take care if you are selling honey.

I would still check the refractometer . Beeno's experience is contrary to mine

 

[beeno]

I would still check the refractometer . Beeno's experience is contrary to mine

MM on another thread found his capped Lime honey at 21% and he checked against his hydrometer and that read the same. It is common, but how many beeks check capped honey, as it is generally accepted that it is ok because the bees have capped it and they know best.