aggressive colony carbon dioxide?

[user 6228]

how about the carbon dioxide? Anybody actually done this?

I know, I know, it may be the duff way out and not decided yet but the apiary is only 100 yds from houses with kids and a prolonged period of grumpy bees could end in homeless bees.

CO2 used as anaesthic for bee breeding as is nitrogen.
to sleep perchance to dream ... and so kick the bucket

 

[itma]

Yes the two sister queens can have a different father,but the drones they both produce will be much the same as they are not from fertilised eggs.

Absolutely with what you are saying, but wouldn't that only be the case if the relevant genes were only passed down the maternal line?

I was thinking that with different fathers, the two sisters would differ genetically from each other, and then because the drones can only have their mother's genes (being from unfertilised eggs), the two hives' drones would promulgate that difference (although some genes would trace back to the grandmother).

/ I would appreciate a suggested reference for an intro to bee genetics!

 

[itma]

...
to sleep perchance to dream ... and so kick the bucket

But wasn't Hamlet actually musing on death ("sleep") and the existence (or not) of an afterlife, when he speaks of dreaming?

{20 minutes, 10 points, only write on one side of the paper ... }

 

[Hivemaker.]

/ I would appreciate a suggested reference for an intro to bee genetics!

There are many,here are a couple ... A background to bee breeding by John H Atkinson and Queen breeding and genetics,how to get better bees by Eigil Holm.

This may also be of interest.http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/genetic_aspects_queen_production_1.html

 

[user 6228]

But wasn't Hamlet actually musing on death ("sleep") and the existence (or not) of an afterlife, when he speaks of dreaming?

{20 minutes, 10 points, only write on one side of the paper ... }

metaphors and euphemisms - a vet know the one "to put to sleep" rather a lot and so not really a musing me thinks

 

[susbees]

Eigil Holm.
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Yikes :S

 

[drstitson]

"Will the remaining sealed brood survive"

i'd imagine not - the CO2 will be coming out cold so will severely chill (if not freeze) the brood.


AS to how to deal with the colony until requeened - as per other suggestions - move hive and allow flyers to return to an empty box. also use cover cloths when examining the hive.

 

[Poly Hive]

Just noticed the critical bit of info which is that there are kids in the vicinity.

I would seriously suggest that you move this colony elsewhere before attempting anything with them. At least the classic three miles. In your job you may well know a helpful farmer or three?

Leave them a day or three to settle then to well dressed and prepared with all the kit you think you may need to deal with them.

Strip them down to where you think the queen is most likely to be and then move that box 50 yds or so and split the combs into four batches of two, making sure light can get at all the outsides of the outer two frames to drive her into the darkness, of which there are now only four places, namely between the combs. She will scuttle in there if you give her time. I always give it a good 20 minutes.

Once you have her, your options are multiple.

Good luck

PH

 

[DanBee]

Just noticed the critical bit of info which is that there are kids in the vicinity.

I would seriously suggest that you move this colony elsewhere before attempting anything with them. At least the classic three miles.

Steady on old chap - we don't know that the kids are that vicious...

 

[Queens59]

Try moving the hive. We had a similar hive at the out apiary, which we moved home to a corner to die out alone (we thought we had a DLQ) and they turned into a wonderful gentle happy colony. Might be worth a try

 

[winmag270]

give them to me, i've a nice little out apiary they could go to.....

 

[RoofTops]

I would appreciate a suggested reference for an intro to bee genetics

"Queen Bee: Biology, Rearing and Breeding" by David Woodward has a short section on genetics plus a lot of other information on queen rearing, including instrumental insemination - although I think you would be best to learn that from practical lessons rather than a book.

 

[wondervet]

The outcome from the aggressive colony saga. May get shot down in flames but I'll report it for what it's worth.

After a lot of agonising we decided to go ahead with eliminating the problem lot. Long story but after fighting with them for a year (one hospitalisation) despite requeening dealing with them was killing the enjoyment of our beekeeping and both of our apiaries have nearby innocent bystanders.

I can recommend a hoover as the weapon of choice (10 extension leads!). Takes a few minutes but v easy. Just seal the entrance, open the hole in crown board and suck them up as them come out. A lot less dramatic than petrol. After 10 minutes the guard bees had gone and the remainder were a lot more handleable. Squished queen. Destroyed all drone brood. Donated the sealed worker brood to a weak colony and all stores recycled.

The queen we put in there last July was still there and loads of brood and no signs of disease.

 

[Busy Bee]

Also after killing the nasty queen could you wait 4 or 5 days for all the eggs to be too old for queen cells then destroy all queen cells and introduce a frame of eggs from a nice hive be introduced to raise emergency cells on, or best to requeen?

This method of raising a queen cell is highlighted but condemed by Ted Hooper and suggested that it should be never used as it tends not to produce a proper queen.

Busy Bee

 

[richardbees]

Don't blame you, wondervet......I'm not certain that all posters here have experienced really nasty bees which as you say takes all the pleasure out of beekeeping.

 

[Poly Hive]

I will certainly agree with that Richard, a seriously nasty colony will hand you a hundred stings in seconds.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Just read this thread and it’s a tough call and perhaps one some people wont understand but when we keep bees in close proximity to innocent people and no way of moving the hive it may be the right one.

Its no fun dealing with an aggressive colony at any time especially in a back garden and I don’t think most people don’t know what aggressive is until they are presented with a really aggressive colony with literally 100’s of stings to your clothing and a frenzy of bees attacking like squadrons with the intent to sting anything close by during and quite a few hours after an inspection and not to mention the noise from the hive.

Experience can nip problem hives in the bud early but then we have to do the time to get the experience.

 

[masterBK]

There are times and situations when killing a colony unfortunately has to take place. What I worry about is the idea of beekeepers with a can of petrol in one hand and a smoker in the other!! A much safer method is the use of detergent water sprayed onto to the bees on the comb. Although a bit messy it does mean the combs can be used again whereas with petrol they can't be due to the persistent smell and the risk of hydrocarbons getting in the honey.
The topic area of how/why to kill colonies is now in the general husbandry syllabus.

 

[itma]

... Donated the sealed worker brood to a weak colony and all stores recycled. ...

I'm sure you'll be interested to see how much the hatching brood is affected by by their aggressive genetics and how much by the influence of the (hopefully calmer) resident queen's pheromones ...

 

[user 6228]

There are times and situations when killing a colony unfortunately has to take place. What I worry about is the idea of beekeepers with a can of petrol in one hand and a smoker in the other!! A much safer method is the use of detergent water sprayed onto to the bees on the comb. Although a bit messy it does mean the combs can be used again whereas with petrol they can't be due to the persistent smell and the risk of hydrocarbons getting in the honey.
The topic area of how/why to kill colonies is now in the general husbandry syllabus.

I dont like the idea of petrol(fire/ contamination) and the detergent water as you say is messy. Im also concerned about the distress and cruelty in the methods.
I have my alternative method and kit identified should the need arise ... Mig or Tig welding gas. (Argon or Argon CO2 mix with a low pressure regulator). Which I luckily have on hand or other purposes.
Odourless inert gases.