After some sympathy

[pargyle]

isolated reports you mean, and it looks like it's the same associations bemoaning it as last season which is pretty telling - there is no way it's national, no reports of that kind around here and' same as last season no feedback of this kind bfrom the BFA


and for years it has been proven to be a figment of his imagination

As I predicted ... "No doubt someone will be along to say it's not a national problem and we are seeing only what has been un-noticed in the past ... but .. it does seem there are more unexplained losses these days."

The fact remains that there are unexplained losses being reported - I can't say whether it's the same associations as I don't keep track if them. Whether the BFA are reporting losses - may be a bit early for most Beefarmers to be checking hives ? Time will tell ..

For what it's worth - all mine have come through so far ...

 

[Antipodes]

where there are lots of stores left in the hive

Could it be in some cases that there is over feeding in autumn and not enough room for the queen to lay a decent number of eggs in the lead-up to winter?

 

[Antipodes]

This year has been much better overall although I did wonder, if a high ivy yield were to coincide with when the winter bees are laid, whether that could cause problems.

Could there be too much feeding with syrup at the same time as a good ivy flow, leading perhaps to lack of room for the queen to lay?

 

[protheroe]

I have a couple of hives in work and where i normally wouldn't check later in the season, i was still checking these.Both queens in their second year and both stopped laying in September until bees really started to dwindle with queens hardly laying.Probably wouldn't have got through winter so had to requeen.At least they're still going at the moment.

 

[Eyeman]

I have a couple of hives in work and where i normally wouldn't check later in the season, i was still checking these.Both queens in their second year and both stopped laying in September until bees really started to dwindle with queens hardly laying.Probably wouldn't have got through winter so had to requeen.At least they're still going at the moment.

I see queens not infrequently reduce or stop laying end Summer / start of Autumn. I’ve never requeened the colonies as It’s something I expect & see each year. Why did you decide to requeen?

 

[protheroe]

because there wouldn't have been enough bees to get through winter.They were seriously dwindling,one hive especially and the queen wasn't kicking in with pollen and nectar going in.Its also a complete pain with health and safety there so its best to keep these alive and not have to go through the hoops to get more bees on site.One of the ops managers is working on sustainability and wanted bees there(Amazon)but its caused me a major headache.Not allowed to have any lighter or smoker on site plus a multitude of other things.

 

[enrico]

I see queens not infrequently reduce or stop laying end Summer / start of Autumn. I’ve never requeened the colonies as It’s something I expect & see each year. Why did you decide to requeen?

So a quick question. In countries where it is warm all the time and winter bees are presumably not needed or produced, what happens here in the UK if we get really warm autumns that continue deep into winter, is there a possibility there will not be enough time for winter bees to be produced before the first cold spell slows everything down? or does it depend on day length. I will be honest I had never heard the phrase <winter Bees> until about ten years ago
Just wondered

 

[Curly green finger's]

6 out of 12 at one site
Yesterday I’m still trying to diagnose what’s the cause but I’m gutted.
I’m upto 9 now

 

[Murox]

So a quick question. In countries where it is warm all the time and winter bees are presumably not needed or produced, what happens here in the UK if we get really warm autumns that continue deep into winter, is there a possibility there will not be enough time for winter bees to be produced before the first cold spell slows everything down? or does it depend on day length. I will be honest I had never heard the phrase <winter Bees> until about ten years ago
Just wondered

You may be on to something there. The length of time warmer conditions hang around in autumn had me wondering too. Up here it is a bit cooler of course and specifically where I am good forage disappears fairly early anyway. Day length would be an interesting study, we get very long days up here and longer dark as well at different times of the year. Like you I had not encountered the "winter bees" phrase until quite recently

 

[enrico]

6 out of 12 at one site
Yesterday I’m still trying to diagnose what’s the cause but I’m gutted.
I’m upto 9 now

Wow, and I felt bad losing 2. Sorry mate

 

[Curly green finger's]

Wow, and I felt bad losing 2. Sorry mate

Yeah it looks like two have got isolated from there stores and the rest I’m going to look at shortly .

 

[Amari]

The other query I wonder about is CBPV. We seem to only think about it in Summer yet it could explain some winter deaths too, especially when bees are in closer contact in the cluster.

I agree, especially if there's a big pile of bees on the OMF, as I had, cf. Enrico's 'handful of bees' which is more compatible with queen failure.

 

[Wilco]

I agree, especially if there's a big pile of bees on the OMF, as I had, cf. Enrico's 'handful of bees' which is more compatible with queen failure.

Although handful of bees could still occur with dwindling and CBPV in mild Autumn/Winter then the handful die in a cold snap.

 

[pargyle]

6 out of 12 at one site
Yesterday I’m still trying to diagnose what’s the cause but I’m gutted.
I’m upto 9 now

That's sad Mark ... one or two is bad enough ...What is left in the hives ? Are there piles of dead bees or just a few ? Are there stores ? Are they full hives or Nucs ? TImber or Poly ? Despite JBM's conviction that it's not a 'national' problem I'm hearing reports from a lot of different areas and you are not alone.

I'll give it another few weeks and then perhaps we can do a poll and see if we can get some firm stats ... it's a bit early now.

 

[Antipodes]

So a quick question. In countries where it is warm all the time and winter bees are presumably not needed or produced, what happens here in the UK if we get really warm autumns that continue deep into winter, is there a possibility there will not be enough time for winter bees to be produced before the first cold spell slows everything down? or does it depend on day length. I will be honest I had never heard the phrase <winter Bees> until about ten years ago
Just wondered

The has been no nectar much here since mid December because of the dry. There won't be much until September/October. So nothing much between early summer and spring. I don't get any winter losses, but it's hardly what you'd call warm all the time. No varroa and no CBPV here as far as I know, so perhaps that's it? They are most likely to starve here in November, which is the equivalent of your May. I can get queens mated in our May, which is your November. As I understand it from on here, May is the only month in the UK where you don't get starvation. In Brisbane or from Northern New South Wales up, I'm pretty sure they can get queens mated all year and honey flows are best in "winter" or through their shortest days. I don't understand the winter bees think in their climate either, but I think it has been previously explained on here. I'm fairly sure that their climate is the best in the world for honey bees.

 

[Curly green finger's]

That's sad Mark ... one or two is bad enough ...What is left in the hives ? Are there piles of dead bees or just a few ? Are there stores ? Are they full hives or Nucs ? TImber or Poly ? Despite JBM's conviction that it's not a 'national' problem I'm hearing reports from a lot of different areas and you are not alone.

I'll give it another few weeks and then perhaps we can do a poll and see if we can get some firm stats ... it's a bit early now.

All timber single brood or brood/super
Two are isolation one is definitely queen failure and three like this
Which without testing is nosema .
I didn’t realise that both nosema and cbpv have very similar symptoms

 

[Erichalfbee]

All timber single brood or brood/super
Two are isolation one is definitely queen failure and three like this
Which without testing is nosema .
I didn’t realise that both nosema and cbpv have very similar symptoms
View attachment 38951

Yes...I wouldn't bother testing. Have you had this before?
Both diseases cause dysentery but CBPV has other symptoms that are not found in Nosema

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes...I wouldn't bother testing. Have you had this before?
Both diseases cause dysentery but CBPV has other symptoms that are not found in Nosema

No not like this, this is the worst I’ve seen it .

 

[The Poot]

Could there be too much feeding with syrup at the same time as a good ivy flow, leading perhaps to lack of room for the queen to lay?

I think so. Especially so, if the keeper is going to compress them into a single box.
This is why I overwinter on double brood (poly), with additional overhead insulation.
If I overfeed, and/or if conditions give a continuous ivy flow into Winter, the queen will still have room to lay.

 

[Antipodes]

I think so. Especially so, if the keeper is going to compress them into a single box.
This is why I overwinter on double brood (poly), with additional overhead insulation.
If I overfeed, and/or if conditions give a continuous ivy flow into Winter, the queen will still have room to lay.

Excellent idea.