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Norton Caff 

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Many moons ago I used to enforce animal health and welfare legislation. One of my tasks was going round farms and livestock premises checking movement books for when there was a disease outbreak so that the disease contacts could be traced. Many stockholders were good and kept their records up to date, other books were partly fiction. Some were only written up when it was known I was in the area. I was always finding new stockholders and knocking on doors. I wasn't working during the last foot and mouth outbreak but I can magine the problems . I can't see beekeepers keeping any such records and no enforcement body is going to pay for someone to check. Brilliant job though.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
I wasn't working during the last foot and mouth outbreak but I can magine the problems.
SWMBO was, and yes, there were problems, the new systems put in place now are better but still require the farmers to be proactive.
Until last year our hunt kennels used to take fallen stock and the number of farmers knocking at the huntsmans door begging for a docket for a 'lost' sheep was amusing. In fact, only last year I had a dead prolapsed ewe stretched out against the fence in front of one apiary, I moved her to another spot so the farmer could pick her up without being bothered by the bees and then noticed both ears had been cut off (no tags, no traditional ear marks) so obviously he had no intention of disposing of the carcass correctly. His wife just looked blankly at me when I mentioned it, the remains were still there months later so obviously the new knackers man must be supplying disposal tickets for 'lost' animals..
 

Norton Caff 

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Nothing changes then. Totally off subject but the Hunt in my area must have regretted picking up a deer carcass. We spent several days clearing up a building and the 'larder as it was suspected to be anthrax.
Does everyone make a note of the date and the name and address that they sell/give bees or a frame of brood or a queen to? I wonder? We can't leave it to memory.
 

Apple 

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The BBKA membership is c 25,000.

There are approx 44,000 amateur beekeepers in the UK (Some will be members of the Scottish, Welsh and Irish BKAs.)

So the BBKA represents approx 57% of total beekeepers known in UK.

Many of the more senior beekeepers are both BBKA and also BIBBA members..
During lockdown BIBBA have been producing a large numbers of Zoom videos on bees ranging from outright propaganda and crap to quite good..
The BBKA may have produced some but I have seen none advertised.
The main protagonists on the BIBBA videos has been prominent BBKA members.



SO in lockdown, the BBKA have been by comparison utterly silent and reduced to the printed magazine..

As far as enforcing hive registration, who could do it?

No-one...The Bee Inspectors are summer only and tied up with Asian Hornets...

Given economics, more heads would be needed.to enforce. The Government will not pay..
Will the BBKA? They would have to increase subscription costs. Say 10 new BIs. at £20k each over 25k members Plus computer systems etc. Subscriptions go up at least £10 per year - approx 30% for an organisation which cannot issue a Zoom video in lockdown... And guess what? BBKA members don't pay.

Ain't going to work.

Pie in the sky.
Sorry Madfish I do not agree with you on most of the content of your post.
Apha bee inspectors are employed all year round, with help from a hard pressed and deminishing work force of Seasonal Bee Inspectors.
Do you mean BIBBA members are more experienced or more senior keepers of bees as the two are poles apart!
Stock movement control for food producing stock ( EXCEPT BEES IT SEEMS) is under the remit of Defra, Farmers would be seriously miffed if say the Long Horned Soay Sheep Fanciers Club (LHSSFC) were given the task of managing TB testing or eradicating Foot & Mouth ....

Mindful that we can not get testing for Covid-19 up and running... it is doubtful if registration of beekeepers is ever likely to happen, particularly now we have left the EU... even if in theory it would be an excellent idea.

Chons da
 

Apple 

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Nothing changes then. Totally off subject but the Hunt in my area must have regretted picking up a deer carcass. We spent several days clearing up a building and the 'larder as it was suspected to be anthrax.
Does everyone make a note of the date and the name and address that they sell/give bees or a frame of brood or a queen to? I wonder? We can't leave it to memory.
We do... been bitten too many times!
And keep a note of any Vet'nary Medicines we use... file seems to be empty!

Chons da
 

beeno 

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Any administrative registration would need to be made Law and run by something like APHA... perhaps a fee could be charged per colony to pay for the inspectorate?
Discount for Beefarmer's of course!!!
Chons da
Now someone is on the right lines. This BBKA paranoia is soo tiresome.
 

Erichalfbee 

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For paranoia, read contempt
They haven’t exactly been very active this year have they? You’d think that as they are supposed to represent the interests of the myriad of beekeepers in this country they would be out and about in cyberspace at least.
 

Apple 

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They haven’t exactly been very active this year have they? You’d think that as they are supposed to represent the interests of the myriad of beekeepers in this country they would be out and about in cyberspace at least.
Top heavy with Master Beekeepers all probably in their dotage and not exactly computer literate and self isolating in fear of the pandemics grim reaper knocking at their doors?
No monthly Local Association meetings coupled with a terrible season for 2 hive owners... I expect the membership base will topple as droves five beekeeping up ( Beekeeping taken on to do something for the environment during their long furlough/holiday... and they had been meaning to start after buying all the kit and doing a course...) and the £100 swarm in a nuc!!!!

And over the last couple of weeks a surge of calls to assist with their queenless hive ( the other one swarmed ) and having to explain that a queen will not solve the problem with a mug full of bees that remain to support her?

I sense a feeling of doom and gloom descending upon our Nation!!

Chons da
 

beeno 

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Many moons ago I used to enforce animal health and welfare legislation. One of my tasks was going round farms and livestock premises checking movement books for when there was a disease outbreak so that the disease contacts could be traced. Many stockholders were good and kept their records up to date, other books were partly fiction. Some were only written up when it was known I was in the area. I was always finding new stockholders and knocking on doors. I wasn't working during the last foot and mouth outbreak but I can magine the problems . I can't see beekeepers keeping any such records and no enforcement body is going to pay for someone to check. Brilliant job though.
Who was your pay master?
 

madasafish 

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The BBKA had their own on line forum. This was at the time the BBKA was riven with political struggles at its top and the anti neonicotinoids (many of whom were genuine but way OTT and caused havoc everywhere) . The forum had one moderator who regarded it as his duty (I believe it was a man) to obliterate any comment which was even slightly critical - or could be construed as such - of the BBKA - or any senior figure within it.

The witch hunt in Salem in the 17th century were mild by comparison. Posts were removed, people banned etc..

This forum was created by Mark who wanted to give beekeepers an independent voice.

The irony is: the BBKA forum is now nearly moribund , the "BBKA" FB pages are not run by the BBKA (an attempted takeover last years ? two years ago - failed..) And they have failed to do any Zoom presentations...on anything. (our Association has done several)
So the BBKA with some 25k members has a pitiful on line presence as far as forums etc are concerned...

The neonicotinoid wars continued on this forum... until they all went OTT and were banned forever..


A little bird tells me the BBKA whose online presence this year has been negligible - sorry nil - have asked BIBBA for help in getting up and running with Zoom presentations. BIBBA have presented lots on Zoom this year and have a current series of talks..
 

WoodenBeam 

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For £30 a year some people’s expectations are way beyond my own...........
Our local association has always been linked with the BBKA & long may that continue - it was always said to me that the structure was from bottom to top, not the top dictating down to the associations so we can really only blame ourselves.
Ya £30 Gets you a magazine, BDI (something is better than nothing before anyone starts on that one) & 3rd party liability - let’s hope nobody has to use but at least it ticks a box in most cases.
i do hope the AFB in the op has been contained & source found - the bee inspectors really do do a cracking job in my opinion.
 

Apple 

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For £30 a year some people’s expectations are way beyond my own...........
Our local association has always been linked with the BBKA & long may that continue - it was always said to me that the structure was from bottom to top, not the top dictating down to the associations so we can really only blame ourselves.
Ya £30 Gets you a magazine, BDI (something is better than nothing before anyone starts on that one) & 3rd party liability - let’s hope nobody has to use but at least it ticks a box in most cases.
i do hope the AFB in the op has been contained & source found - the bee inspectors really do do a cracking job in my opinion.
Majority of beekeepers are of a pensionable age £30 out going to the BBKA for a not so glossy comic and insurance seems expensive, given that for some hobbyists even keeping 2 colonies going this season has been a struggle. I would rather put the £30 towards my colour TV licence!
Household insurance policies have cover for third party liability, how many court claims are brought in the UK against a beekeeper for negligence?
I get the BBKA magazine given to me, usually still unopened in its compost ~ able postal sleeve, scan through it and put it with the other magazines that then get used for lighting the AGA.

However to put things in perspective BDI ( If you have paid out for it... ) does cover replacement frames that have to be destroyed under the order and supervision of the Bee Inspector for both AFB and EFB.
It also now covers frames destroyed in the case of whole apiary shook swarm for EFB.
Your Inspector has to fill out a wadge of forms.
It does not cover honey that has to be destroyed or the value of the bees and any consequential losses due to the loss of a colony.

As an aside...
I can not get any affordable insurance for disease losses..... and the consequential losses due to Covid 19 pandemic ( loss of income due to closed markets etc).... are being debated in the High Court.
I see consequential losses due to pandemics are now excluded on new policies!

IF all beekeepers had to be registered, and all colony movements regulated, licenced and recorded, possibly we would see a reduction in bee diseases. Breeders and suppliers of bees in most cases are very aware of their obligations... as are Beefarmers with DASH certification.
Those beekeepers who trade under the RADAR catching and selling swarms, selling doubtful nucs of bees, queens etc... often to unsuspecting beginners desperate for bees, would soon be caught and should suffer the full force of the law ... Keel hauling would be too good for them!!

Sunday Sermon over!

Chons da
 

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