Advice re varroa treatment

[Hebeegeebee]

My association advised all those years ago about changing the Queen, so you haven't taught me personally.

I moved a chalkbrood queen to another hive as an experiment and - guess what - the chalkbrood moved with her.

 

[Bryang]

Bet the OP is really glad he asked that question about OA sublimation.

Have enjoyed reading most of the posts, and I have gained some more knowledge.

 

[Finman]

It doesn't take 54 years to learn about beekeeping and be able to successfully keep bees - .

I agree. It would be harsh if you should keep bees 54 years before you get your first honey yield.

 

[pargyle]

Should we have a whip round to buy Finman a drum to bang and a trumpet to blow?

Hivemaker must be sleeping ?

 

[BeeJayBee]

... Within about a mile radius of my apiary there are at least 60 other hives - possibly more - and I know the majority of the beekeepers...

I know there are at least three beekeepers within a few hundred yards of my main apiary.

One of these beekeepers is self-taught, having read a book about beekeeping, so doesn't need to know any more. The beekeeper is not a member of any beekeeping group or association, and this apiary is unregistered.

This beekeeper claims to be organic everything, and refused to accept the NBU booklets about the foulbroods - doesn't need them because his organic bees are sure to be healthy. There is EFB in the area and there has been AFB in the not too recent past.

The NBU tells me that, currently, there are 174 registered apiaries within a 10km radius of my main site whilst my out-apiary has 147. Other sites I have available have 191 and 197 registered apiaries within the same measured area.

I hope your not creating a 'varroa bomb' which will explode on those nearby apiaries.

Alarmist, much?

I'm actually much more concerned about the foulbroods than mite loads and mite-vectored viruses. If I believe I need to treat my bees with varroacides then I will, I'm not dogmatic about it and I will choose the treatment I believe is most appropriate at the time. I don't believe I have ever been openly critical of other beekeepers rational and reasoned decisions about how they manage their bees.

 

[Hivemaker.]

One of these beekeepers is self-taught, having read a book about beekeeping, so doesn't need to know any more.

That is more than some have done, I am sure he will learn still more from working with the bees.

The beekeeper is not a member of any beekeeping group or association.

Not everyone likes/enjoys, feels comfortable about, or has the time to be a member of a group/association/club.

 

[B+.]

Not everyone likes/enjoys, feels comfortable about, or has the time to be a member of a group/association/club.

or, put it another way:
https://youtu.be/kJHUres_2xU?t=4m10s

 

[charlievictorbravo]

This thread has been very interesting generally but I have one query about Varroa that has not been answered. If you have a colony that has a high Varroa count, measured say, by the sugar rolling method, but shows no signs of DWV or other forms of Varroosis, should that colony be treated or would it be assumed that the bees are coping with a high mite load and should be breeding stock?

CVB

 

[Eyeman]

This thread has been very interesting generally but I have one query about Varroa that has not been answered. If you have a colony that has a high Varroa count, measured say, by the sugar rolling method, but shows no signs of DWV or other forms of Varroosis, should that colony be treated or would it be assumed that the bees are coping with a high mite load and should be breeding stock?

CVB

Only treating when you see significant DWV or parasitic mite syndrome is in my opinion too late. The colony is already weakened and depending on the time of year may either not respond or may be killed by a varroicide.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Only treating when you see significant DWV or parasitic mite syndrome is in my opinion too late. The colony is already weakened and depending on the time of year may either not respond or may be killed by a varroicide.

Weakened by what? The Varroa feeding on their haemolymph? Anybody know of colonies surviving with high mite load or, even if they carry the DWV type B, do they still succumb?

CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Going by the findings of Steve Martin et al thus far - if they have DWV B then they should be able to cope with a high varroa count - the trick is, knowing whether they have DWV A or B. Thus comes the time whether (as Prof.Martin intimated) you take a punt and leave them to it or go down the conventional (safe) route and treat.

 

[pargyle]

Weakened by what? The Varroa feeding on their haemolymph? Anybody know of colonies surviving with high mite load or, even if they carry the DWV type B, do they still succumb?

CVB

Only insomuch as I see occasional spikes - if you are going down the non-treatment route this is the point where you either treat or hold your nerve . I've managed to resist going for the vapouriser and the measured mite load has proved to be just a spike and has returned to what I consider a manageable level. But ... if the spikes were accompanied by any signs of a weakening colony I think I would treat - but that would not be a colony to be one I would raise more bees from.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Only insomuch as I see occasional spikes - if you are going down the non-treatment route this is the point where you either treat or hold your nerve . I've managed to resist going for the vapouriser and the measured mite load has proved to be just a spike and has returned to what I consider a manageable level. But ... if the spikes were accompanied by any signs of a weakening colony I think I would treat - but that would not be a colony to be one I would raise more bees from.

In July I had natural daily mite drops of 30 -40 which suggests an infestation of 2.5 to 3%. That colony has dropped nearly 6000 mites since I started treating it in July. What was the level of your spikes before the bees gained control again?

CVB

 

[Eyeman]

Weakened by what? The Varroa feeding on their haemolymph? Anybody know of colonies surviving with high mite load or, even if they carry the DWV type B, do they still succumb?

Sorry
I misread your post. Thought you said it had signs if DWV.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Going by the findings of Steve Martin et al thus far - if they have DWV B then they should be able to cope with a high varroa count - the trick is, knowing whether they have DWV A or B. Thus comes the time whether (as Prof.Martin intimated) you take a punt and leave them to it or go down the conventional (safe) route and treat.

It's my understanding that DWV B is symptomless, does not result in deformed wings.

Once a colony has bees showing symptoms of DWV A (deformed wings etc) it is carrying a lot of passengers - bees that will only eat and be looked after by other bees. Killing sick bees by squeezing them or knocking them to the ground, and then treating the colony with either a varroacide (vaporizer, MAQS etc) or 'fairy dust', doesn't always make much difference to the colony's long-term survival and they tend to fail over winter. That's my experience anyway, and is one of the reasons why I'm a bit harsh with any colonies that have deformed wings.

.... signs of a weakening colony I think I would treat - but that would not be a colony to be one I would raise more bees from.

I think we have to assume that all our bees will have a form of the DWV virus, and increase stocks from colonies that have no symptoms - i.e. successful colonies.

 

[maddydog]

Weakened by what? The Varroa feeding on their haemolymph? Anybody know of colonies surviving with high mite load or, even if they carry the DWV type B, do they still succumb?

CVB

Don't know whether my colonies have type B,C, or Z but I usually see a post-treatment resurgence in those heavily infested.

Personally speaking if I had a dinner plate sized blood-sucking parasite on my back, my first thought wouldn't be: 'am I now infected with HIV?'

 

[GaryB]

What the f**k has HIV got to do with it.....?

 

[maddydog]

What the f**k has HIV got to do with it.....?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Under all the ridicule and deliberate over-interpretations, there is a fair question (to which I do not have the answer) which is, even without the burden of viruses, at what point do the mites themselves impose a meaningful burden on the colony.

 

[Beefriendly]

Under all the ridicule and deliberate over-interpretations, there is a fair question (to which I do not have the answer) which is, even without the burden of viruses, at what point do the mites themselves impose a meaningful burden on the colony.

Work on varroa surviving strains showed that removing Varroa (with treatments) they gave you nearly 2x as much honey as the untreated colonies.
Might be difficult to separate the effects of the viral load from the parasite load.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that a sick bee with a heavy parasite load will not be as an effective forager as a healthy unparasitized bee.
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00892292/document