Advice re varroa treatment

[maddydog]

prion disease = mad cow disease

It is one of those topics still very sensitive in the UK.

Not particularly, given your two candidates I would say there is something far worse aflicting the U S of A

 

[Fusion_power]

Are you doing any better with your current crop of "leaders"?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not particularly, given your two candidates I would say there is something far worse aflicting the U S of A

A national IQ test which they seem to be failing miserably at.

 

[B+.]

If we could get back to the OP...

I don't think I've posted this before. It is a copy of some of the documents I received from BartJan Fernout (Arista Bee Research) as part of the package I use for measuring VSH.
The first attachment shows the age of the pupae/varroa mites. The idea is that you uncap sealed brood (the older the better) and count the mites in each cell
The second attachment is the scoring form I use for counting mites. I am looking for reproducing/non-reproducing mites and how many/what stage her offspring are at.
A VSH colony will detect reproducing mites but leave cells containing uninfected/non-reproducing (sterile) mites alone.
By uncapping 30-50 cells per colony, a calculation can be made of the percentage expression of the VSH trait (unfortunately, I couldn't upload this pdf to the site). The trait is calculated as the number of cleaned out cells divided by the number of infected cells.

These island mated tested queens (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3761) which I received from The Netherlands express 87.5% VSH so they removed 7/8ths (87.5%) of all of the reproducing varroa. Breeding from colonies that express the trait at a high level and incorporating even higher expression will improve the line still further. Arista already have a small number of 100% VSH colonies and are working to expand the line (https://aristabeeresearch.org/)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If we could get back to the OP...

I don't think I've posted this before. It is a copy of some of the documents I received from BartJan Fernout (Arista Bee Research) as part of the package I use for measuring VSH.

errrm :

Is there a limit on how many times I can treat my hives with oxalic using a evaporating "poker"?

Pot kettle colour check?

 

[B+.]

Pot kettle colour check?

Ok, I accept your dig if you don't believe that VSH reduces the need for treatment

I posted the information so others could look for the trait too

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Ok, I accept your dig if you don't believe that VSH reduces the need for treatment

I posted the information so others could look for the trait too

In order to complete the form, you presumably take the brood frame to somewhere close to a microscope and empty one cell at a time, recording the findings one cell to a line on the form.

The two lines of research seem to me to be breeding VSH bees and breeding mites/bees with type B DWV. Do you know if anybody is looking at the two together - my thought is that the type B virus allows the bees to somehow detect the mites that otherwise are undetectable but there may be some other mechanism. Some connection would explain Ron Hoskins' hygienic bees/type B virus situation - it surely can't be a coincidence, can it?

CVB

 

[masterBK]

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal cause

 

[B+.]

In order to complete the form, you presumably take the brood frame to somewhere close to a microscope and empty one cell at a time, recording the findings one cell to a line on the form.

That is correct. You have to make sure that the cell is completely cleaned out so you are counting all of the progeny. A microscope with a long arm makes it easier but a magnifier will do at a stretch.
It can easily take an hour to do 1 colony so it is quite time consuming.

The two lines of research seem to me to be breeding VSH bees and breeding mites/bees with type B DWV. Do you know if anybody is looking at the two together - my thought is that the type B virus allows the bees to somehow detect the mites that otherwise are undetectable but there may be some other mechanism. Some connection would explain Ron Hoskins' hygienic bees/type B virus situation - it surely can't be a coincidence, can it?

CVB

I can't answer that question. I can observe symptoms, but, I am not trained/equipped to look for viri.

 

[Fusion_power]

VSH is the best studied complex trait that reduces varroa. Allogrooming, mite mauling, mite entombment, and extended brood breaks are other mechanisms for mite resistance. Whether variant DWV could be added to any of these is a good topic for research.

 

[B+.]

Allogrooming, mite mauling, mite entombment, and extended brood breaks are other mechanisms for mite resistance.

These are very difficult to quantify (i.e. they can be quite subjective) and are even more time consuming to investigate. Perhaps this is why they seem to attract less attention.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Correlation doesn't necessarily equal cause

Sorry - too cryptic for me. What are you saying?

CVB

 

[B+.]

Sorry - too cryptic for me. What are you saying?

CVB

Correlation is when two things move together.
He is saying that, just because there is a correlation, it doesn't mean one causes the other to move....which is correct. Something else could be causing them both to move. It is important to look for the root cause (the thing that causes dependent variables to move)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

my thought is that the type B virus allows the bees to somehow detect the mites that otherwise are undetectable but there may be some other mechanism.

You may be on the right lines there - just looked through my notes from the talk again on Sunday and found one line which may say just that - they were just bullet points so can't be 100% sure of what I meant when writing up (I'll have to get a sustificit in note taking) but I think the gist was that the chemical matching that made them invisible may be affected by DWV B.
Interesting note I saw again was that Varroa destructor can no longer co-exist with Apis ceranae - so things are always shifting.

 

[B+.]

I'll have to get a sustificit in note taking

You need one of these https://www.livescribe.com/en-gb/smartpen/ls3/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

with my writing, I doubt my smartphone would be able to decipher anything!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

things are always shifting.

Hopefully in our bees' favour at present. But plenty of other challenges on the way.

 

[Fusion_power]

These are very difficult to quantify (i.e. they can be quite subjective) and are even more time consuming to investigate. Perhaps this is why they seem to attract less attention.

Difficult or no, there are already lines of bees selected for expressing mite mauling and mite entombment. The best I've seen for mite mauling is 75% expression with some colonies better and some worse, but an average of 75%. I can readily purchase mite maulers if I want them. The best for mite entombment is 95%. I'll see if I can get more information on mite entombment, it sounds like an interesting trait.

 

[mbc]

Difficult or no, there are already lines of bees selected for expressing mite mauling and mite entombment. The best I've seen for mite mauling is 75% expression with some colonies better and some worse, but an average of 75%. I can readily purchase mite maulers if I want them. The best for mite entombment is 95%. I'll see if I can get more information on mite entombment, it sounds like an interesting trait.

75% mite mauling ?? 95% entombment??!?
sounds like 125% bs to me

 

[Finman]

.
There are grooming videos in YouTube. Many of them guard bees on entrance and they inspect robber bees. Need to be imagination included.