Advice re varroa treatment

[charlievictorbravo]

No they don't, in fact type B can wipe out type A

There is a conflict here that I don't understand - JBM's view above is what Schroeder from the MBA found in Ron Hoskins' bees but Fatbees' refererence ("Using laboratory experiments and a systematic field survey, we demonstrate that an emerging DWV genotype (DWV-B) is more virulent than the established DWV genotype (DWV-A) and is widespread in the landscape.") produces a contradiction.

I find it difficult to believe that a virulent (meaning it is extremely severe or harmful in its effect) Type B DWV as described in Fatbees' reference has not wiped out Ron Hoskins' bees in the 20-odd years he has not been treating his bees with veroicides.

One of the problems is that this sort of work is done by academic virologists who don't know one end of a bee from the other but they understand viruses and how to identify them. Research is needed that combines virology with practical beekeeping.

CVB

 

[Hivemaker.]

One of the problems is that this sort of work is done by academic virologists who don't know one end of a bee from the other but they understand viruses and how to identify them. Research is needed that combines virology with practical beekeeping.

Fatshark is a Professor of virology that does research into honey bee viruses, and is also a practical beekeeper.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it's not just Schroeder we have to listen to here - Martin's findings are that B can take over from A but does not harm the bee, So maybe Schroeder's definition is that that the 'virulence' infects the bees easily and knocks out A but is benign in it's nature - a strange dichotomy.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Fatshark is a Professor of virology that does research into honey bee viruses, and is also a practical beekeeper.

He's not Prof Martin is he?! (which is what he does as well) if it is, he must be having a good chuckle at my ham fisted efforts at conveying what I heard in his lecture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[B+.]

Fatshark is a Professor of virology that does research into honey bee viruses, and is also a practical beekeeper.

Perhaps fatshark could give us some guidance on how we might identify these variants?
Are we just looking for the absence of DWV?

 

[Hivemaker.]

He's not Prof Martin is he?

No, Professor David Evans.....

http://biology.st-andrews.ac.uk/contact/staffprofile.aspx?sunid=dje2

https://peerj.com/articles/1591/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Research is needed that combines virology with practical beekeeping.

CVB

BDI are pleased to announce that they have agreed to provide major funding of ground breaking research into the relationship between the honey bee and the parasitic varroa mite, in a project code named REViVe (Rolling out the Evolution of resistance to Varroa and DWV).

The three year project will be undertaken jointly by Dr. Declan Schroder from The Marine Biological Association (The MBA) based in Plymouth, and Prof. Stephen Martin from The School of Environmental and Life Sciences, Salford University.

After the varroa mite was first found in the UK in 1992 many beekeepers have used a variety of chemical and biological methods of keeping the mite population under control, to minimise the effects on their colonies. As would be expected naturally resistant populations of bees have not therefore evolved and the widespread collapse of feral colonies has followed on. There have however been a very small number of populations of European honey bees that appeared across the globe that persist without any form of varroa control.

Initial resPupae with varroa miteearch into a UK population of varroa tolerant bees, suggest that a new equilibrium between the honey bees, deformed wing virus (DWV) and varroa has been established which may help to explain the long term survival of a UK mite resistant colony. Full details of this work is currently awaiting publication.

This major project will look at what happens to colonies of resistant bees that are moved into other areas. This work is important, as it is not only necessary to be able to identify what enables these bee populations to survive untreated for varroa, but also to be able to work on the mechanisms that would enable these traits to be assimilated into the wider bee populations.

Dr Declan Schroeder said 'At The MBA in Plymouth we access to state-of-the-art facilities to enable us to undertake this work. As a leading virology research centre we are ideally placed to continue this ground breaking work. Our initial research has provided us with a new mechanism of disease resistance in honey bees and it is great to be able to take this to the next stage'

Adult bees with Varroa mites clearly visible
Prof Stephen Martin commented 'I was fortunate to lead a team of researchers that looked at the way varroa spread though the honey bee populations as it arrived in Hawaii. In particular we were able to monitor the way that the virus loads changed in bees as they were newly colonised by the mite. Comparing these viral loads with the isolated colonies that have survived may well lead us to apply the DWV / varroa resistance mechanisms to other honey bee populations.

 

[Erichalfbee]

so maybe my bees and mites have Type B virus and I could risk a treatment-free regime.


CVB

Now wouldn't that be an exciting thing.
You could leave one colony untreated maybe?

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is a conflict here.......................an emerging DWV genotype (DWV-B) is more virulent than the established DWV genotype (DWV-A) and is widespread in the landscape.") produces a contradiction.

I find it difficult to believe that a virulent (meaning it is extremely severe or harmful in its effect) Type B DWV as described in Fatbees' reference has not wiped out Ron Hoskins' bees in the 20-odd years he has not been treating his bees with veroicides.



CVB

In this case more virulent actually means that is spreads more easily and widely than another. Hence the superinfection which is the characteristic that is getting people interested.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Dr Declan Schroeder said 'At The MBA in Plymouth we access to state-of-the-art facilities to enable us to undertake this work. As a leading virology research centre we are ideally placed to continue this ground breaking work. Our initial research has provided us with a new mechanism of disease resistance in honey bees and it is great to be able to take this to the next stage'

Adult bees with Varroa mites clearly visible
Prof Stephen Martin commented 'I was fortunate to lead a team of researchers that looked at the way varroa spread though the honey bee populations as it arrived in Hawaii. In particular we were able to monitor the way that the virus loads changed in bees as they were newly colonised by the mite. Comparing these viral loads with the isolated colonies that have survived may well lead us to apply the DWV / varroa resistance mechanisms to other honey bee populations.

Thanks for that JMB.

There is follow-up information describing the first year of the research project here: https://3035fded-a-0accf907-s-sites.googlegroups.com/a/beediseasesinsurance.co.uk/external-site/research/revive/ReViVe%20August%2016%20update.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7crfEpJD94t94NzyGvYIpDrW_NP1GihkAqjurWT0us7XAC-hZOEZ3mwSjn5tuP-2oPoury0s62YVTIiF8xzHFIX1pT3V-nrTgfGGyLDfFrQpX3fKaMzKrgQ1Nn983OAssWMxPV6IdNgHTWoaZEaWH9pwnUkLQikJ4k4pfpyZyLCL1tuJM_l0AxWUyKv6wOLHyRlEMI1ynJExinMZFtAdmI6-c2LIHSzenRlM7lj_9cE_qpozw7uw6I1tq8FvAfcnWlCSEQURotriWZa2gPnA7zGwz3zuGw%3D%3D&attredirects=0

I have real hopes for this research.

CVB

 

[charlievictorbravo]

In this case more virulent actually means that is spreads more easily and widely than another. Hence the superinfection which is the characteristic that is getting people interested.

Yes, that would make sense but it is not the common usage. Since reading your post, I've checked on several online dictionaries and your meaning is less well represented than one involving severity and speed of transmission. It's a pity the author did not qualify the word "virulent" so that his reader know exactly what he means. I came away from reading his piece thinking that Type B DWV was more dangerous to bees than the other type, whereas this appears to be not what he was saying.



CVB

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

maybe my bees and mites have Type B virus and I could risk a treatment-free regime.
CVB

Now wouldn't that be an exciting thing.
You could leave one colony untreated maybe?

Martin did say in his lecture that in all probability a large proportion of colonies in the UK could survive treatment free - it's just a matter of knowing which ones.

 

[B+.]

Martin did say in his lecture that in all probability a large proportion of colonies in the UK could survive treatment free - it's just a matter of knowing which ones.

You'll never know until you try. Its a brave step to take though.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You'll never know until you try. Its a brave step to take though.

He said that with the next breath!!

 

[B+.]

He said that with the next breath!!

I'm sure he did. Personally, I wouldn't advise it unless you're prepared to adopt bees that have already proven they can survive without treatment

 

[BeeJayBee]

In this case more virulent actually means that is spreads more easily and widely than another. Hence the superinfection which is the characteristic that is getting people interested.

I think that, in this instance, we can hope that DWV B will spread quickly and offer our bees some immunity to DWV A and C.

In Prof. Steve Martin's opinion it is hygienic behaviour that is the red herring that has been drawing the hounds off the line the last few years.

They seem to be investing a lot of manpower and money world wide over something which has no bearing of a colony's ability to coexist with v.destructor.

Hygienic behaviour has nothing to do with Apis Ceranae's ability to coexist with varroa so why should Mellifera be any different?.

with this too. Funding is obviously a key part of research and a key leader of research so, as long as the funders want so-called hygienic behaviour to be investigated and researched then there will be money for it.

Let's hope there is a decent amount of funding for the virus researchers. After all, viruses replicate and mutate far more quickly than either mites or bees.

You'll never know until you try. Its a brave step to take though.

I have two apiary sites, one has not been treated for several years - nothing, not even what JBM refers to as fairy dust. This apiary has, proportionally, had no more losses than the other site, although I must admit that I thought it would.

 

[B+.]

I have two apiary sites, one has not been treated for several years - nothing, not even what JBM refers to as fairy dust. This apiary has, proportionally, had no more losses than the other site, although I must admit that I thought it would.

Good for you BJB....ignore the cynics....you'll have the last laugh!

 

[BeeJayBee]

Good for you BJB....ignore the cynics....you'll have the last laugh!

Maybe, but possibly not. I do, though, admire Ron Hoskins' tenacity.

Leaving the bees to get on with it seems to be a bit of a 'crankish' thing to do, and if I was asked about treatment I probably wouldn't admit to leaving some colonies alone. Being hidden behind a pseudonym makes some things easier.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Maybe, but possibly not. I do, though, admire Ron Hoskins' tenacity.

Leaving the bees to get on with it seems to be a bit of a 'crankish' thing to do, and if I was asked about treatment I probably wouldn't admit to leaving some colonies alone. Being hidden behind a pseudonym makes some things easier.

Although it looks like a lot of Ron's success as a non-treater may be down to his breeding bees and mites with the Type B virus, I too admire him for his courage and willingness to "plough a lonely furrow". I kind of hope that it's not just the virus but also something to do with the evidence he has documented over the years about two forms of hygienic behaviour - damage to fallen mites by the bees and infected brood being removed from cells. Maybe they are all connected.

Ron's in the process of doing further work on viruses and he's looking at how or whether he can transfer the behaviour of his bees to "non-hygienic" colonies remote from Swindon - Salisbury. I think. Time is not on his side - he's 85 and he struggles because he's not an academic so his work does not get written up in Nature, etc. Good luck, Ron!

CVB

 

[pargyle]

It's not such a lonely furrow - there's a lot of beekeepers I know that are not treating and have been on treatment free regimes for some time - but, the fear of being condemned by other beekeepers as irresponsible, dangerous, cruel and a whole host of other things tends to make them very circumspect when it comes to admitting it publicly.

The general concensus amongst the non-treaters that I know is that they experience no more or no less colony losses than their peers who treat. It takes a lot of nerve to stop treating and it takes even more, when you see spikes in the mite drop, to hold off reaching for the OA.

I'm glad that the science may be catching up with those who made the leap of faith - whatever it is that is working for a few colonies here and there....