Advice please if you can

[Lolly Bee]

Finally I've managed to get into the apiary to check things out. All hives were treated and fed throughout winter. Two very healthy looking hives. Queens clearly laying so not worried. However ... one hive is looking completely tragic.
Vast majority of overwintered bees are dead, no obvious signs of starvation and frames still have stores.
Tiny quantity of bees left
Queen spotted (she was going to be quietly put to sleep this year due to age). Very, very limited laying.
My current thinking is: Put them into a nuc. Feed with sugar syrup. Add a couple of brood frames with brood from another healthy hive and then ... the big question. Is it too early to kill the queen? Will the very small number of bees breed a new queen from an added brood frame? Any clever thoughts as to why this hive would die off? Nothing obvious to spot in terms of disease although one (very fast moving) bee was spotted with this under the wings (unless it just got caught up on some wax or something).
Your advice would be grateful appreciated as I think this needs dealing with today.
Many thanks.

 

[Wilco]

What treatment did you use and when? I find the biggest issue seems to be varroa for poor overwintering and getting going again in spring.

Another possibility is if they had too much in the way of stores when they were making winter bees, they would then not have been able to produce enough so there just aren't enough to get past crossover and rear brood.

Without seeing brood it's hard to determine various conditions.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the 'very small number' of obviously knackered winter bees won't be able to cope with a sudden influx of two frames of brood, personally, I think whatever you do, they're just going to dwindle away

 

[Lolly Bee]

What treatment did you use and when? I find the biggest issue seems to be varroa for poor overwintering and getting going again in spring.

Another possibility is if they had too much in the way of stores when they were making winter bees, they would then not have been able to produce enough so there just aren't enough to get past crossover and rear brood.

Without seeing brood it's hard to determine various conditions.

All hives had the same varroa treatment, and stores supplied through Autumn and Winter. The hive was rammed at the last check and hefting showed them to be heavy enough. Hence my befuddlement!

 

[Lolly Bee]

the 'very small number' of obviously knackered winter bees won't be able to cope with a sudden influx of two frames of brood, personally, I think whatever you do, they're just going to dwindle away

You could be right : ( I'd quite like to try and get them going, I hate the idea of them all dying off and a third hive lost. It is by far the nicest and gentlest one of the three! What would you do?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Tiny quantity of bees left

Will the very small number of bees breed a new queen from an added brood frame?

No, don't waste resources; kill the old queen and shake out the bees on a flying day; clean the kit, save any good combs and split a strong colony in midsummer to make up the loss.

Colonies with old queens winter poorly, and best off in a nuc.

hive was rammed at the last check

Old winter bees.

 

[Lolly Bee]

No, don't waste resources; kill the old queen and shake out the bees on a flying day; clean the kit, save any good combs and split a strong colony in midsummer to make up the loss.

Colonies with old queens winter poorly, and best off in a nuc.


Old winter bees.

Thanks for the advice. The apiary is pretty sheltered but heaven knows when this ridiculous wind is going to give us a flying day! More like a blowing day today!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It is by far the nicest and gentlest one of the three! What would you do?

They're already doomed, it's obvious the queen is on her last legs, as Eric, not really worth the bother of uniting, I'd cut my losses, kill the queen and shake the rest out if there is any brood, find a slot for it in another colony

 

[drex]

Lots of white specks of varroa poo round the lips of empty cells. I would say that your treatment was not effective. It is not important how many mites you kill, but rather how many survive

 

[user 819]

The pic is telling and quite abit of white varroa poo around the edges of the cells.
Timing of some treatments are temp reliant, a fail safe treatment that works hands down all the time is OA vaping . One can treat any when at any time and temp to within reason.

 

[Lolly Bee]

No, don't waste resources; kill the old queen and shake out the bees on a flying day; clean the kit, save any good combs and split a strong colony in midsummer to make up the loss.

Colonies with old queens winter poorly, and best off in a nuc.


Old winter bees.

“Regicide” duly committed heartbreaking, the gentlest and calmest of my three hives. One is unapproachable so this year is double “regicide” but that one will be a huge hurrah!

 

[fian]

I would move everything to a fertilization nucleus, to this I would add some shaken nurses from one of the other hives and/or a comb with closed brood that is as dark as possible (with a couple of days left to emerge). I will never be able to understand that someone tries to get rid of a queen and with her part of her genetics, good or bad, is diversity in her apiary.

 

[Lolly Bee]

Lots of white specks of varroa poo round the lips of empty cells. I would say that your treatment was not effective. It is not important how many mites you kill, but rather how many survive

That's really helpful information thank you. Always something to learn.

 

[enrico]

“Regicide” duly committed heartbreaking, the gentlest and calmest of my three hives. One is unapproachable so this year is double “regicide” but that one will be a huge hurrah!

Don't knock yourself, lost two, possibly three over winter in the same way. Never had it happen before.

 

[Lolly Bee]

The pic is telling and quite abit of white varroa poo around the edges of the cells.
Timing of some treatments are temp reliant, a fail safe treatment that works hands down all the time is OA vaping . One can treat any when at any time and temp to within reason.

I looked in to vaping. It looking terrifying! Plus I can't park my car anywhere near the hives and the machines were beyond comprehension. I think I would need someone who does it themselves to show me how to do it. I'm better in person than watching scary stuff on Youtube etc.

 

[Lolly Bee]

I would move everything to a fertilization nucleus, to this I would add some shaken nurses from one of the other hives and/or a comb with closed brood that is as dark as possible (with a couple of days left to emerge). I will never be able to understand that someone tries to get rid of a queen and with her part of her genetics, good or bad, is diversity in her apiary.

Sadly I have to. The viciousness of the entire hive is appalling. Plus I can't put the people on whose land the hives are located as risk. They have tenants there and their daughter is terrified of bees. I have been stung and chased too many times (sent to A and E once by the nurses at the vaccine centre when I was volunteering there and completely swollen).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I will never be able to understand that someone tries to get rid of a queen and with her part of her genetics, good or bad, is diversity in her apiary.

you obviously also struggled to understand what the OP was saying and that the queen in question was goosed - absolutely no use whatsoever in perpetuating any bloodline - good or bad.

 

[Moobee]

I would move everything to a fertilization nucleus, to this I would add some shaken nurses from one of the other hives and/or a comb with closed brood that is as dark as possible (with a couple of days left to emerge). I will never be able to understand that someone tries to get rid of a queen and with her part of her genetics, good or bad, is diversity in her apiary.

Errrrr absolutely not the right thing to do. I wouldn’t want stroppy genes being passed on thank you very much, especially if I I’ve sent out some nice young queens from mating nucs.

 

[E&MBees]

I looked in to vaping. It looking terrifying! Plus I can't park my car anywhere near the hives and the machines were beyond comprehension. I think I would need someone who does it themselves to show me how to do it. I'm better in person than watching scary stuff on Youtube etc.

How near are you to Bath? I vape my bees and would be happy to show you the ropes. I don’t have vehicle access either at my apiaries, so I use a small mobility scooter battery which I can carry in a shopping bag. Emily

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I looked in to vaping. It looking terrifying! Plus I can't park my car anywhere near the hives and the machines were beyond comprehension.

It's easy and no hassle - you don't need to get your car close to the hives, just a 12 volt battery once you've seen how it's done' you'll laugh at how much of a doddle it is.
I'd jump at Emily's offer if you are able to.