Advice on a single sealed QC discovery

[Erichalfbee]

Delaplane's take on the matter:

Ah. The larva advertises itself as the best but because a queen raised that way comes from a subset that under natural conditions wouldn’t exist as a grown worker she is suboptimal. Neat theory.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Delaplane's explanation turned that idea on its head.

Absolutely. I was under the impression that it selected for the best.
All this is fascinating

 

[Erichalfbee]

Aaaaarrgh £74!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ah. The larva advertises itself

and how does the egg 'advertise' itself?

 

[Erichalfbee]

and how does the egg 'advertise' itself?

Yes I’m sure there is some fancy thinking there. Theories abound. Perhaps they are all wrong?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes I’m sure there is some fancy thinking there

or fanciful

 

[pargyle]

Yes I’m sure there is some fancy thinking there. Theories abound. Perhaps they are all wrong?

All you can do is accept the observations as factual - what and why the bees do it we have little idea - they do many things that we can't explain fully but can only theorise on based on observation and probability. It's fascinating ... and interesting - and where I started out a good few posts ago.

 

[pargyle]

or fanciful

I suspect the original propositions that the earth was round were deemed as fanciful ..

Most fanciful theories are only that because there can be no definitive explanation. If you believe that the bees preferences are purely random then I think you are underestimating some of their abilities that they have of which we have, as yet, no knowledge or understanding.

 

[Erichalfbee]

All you can do is accept the observations

I think Delaplane’s take makes most sense so far.

 

[rolande]

Jay Smith's 'Better Queens ' lays out the events that led a prominent queen breeder to move away (after decades) from grafting to a method based on total confidence that queens raised from eggs were better. Now, there's stuff in that book which doesn't stand up to modern scrutiny and of course there may have been other unacknowledged factors which we'll never know about but even so, a large scale producer saw fit to change his system for one which has always seemed to me to entail more work.

 

[Sutty]

So, EQCs are favourably formed on 3 day old eggs?
Eggs in worker cells "fall over" in that 3 days.
Maybe the workers favour 3 days because they can assess the size of the egg at that point? Perhaps they are selecting bigger eggs to turn into queens?

 

[magor]

I think Delaplane’s take makes most sense so far.

i think delaplane talks about supersedure response

 

[Sutty]

Delaplane's theory is interesting. However it implies that supercedure queens are selected but the workers from eggs or larvae in worker cells - the emergency response. I had always understood they were formed from queen cups the queen had laid in - is this wrong.
Secondly how do the "parasitic" lines survive many generations of swarm queens? Or are they also selected for by the workers when laid in queen cups?

 

[rolande]

I think the use of the word supersedure might be an unintentional red herring, I got the impression that he was talking about emergency response despite the word used.

As for how these genetic lines exist, that's another interesting conundrum to add to this thread.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As for how these genetic lines exist, that's another interesting conundrum to add to this thread.

Yes. They don’t actually exist as functioning adult worker bees … so are they viable only as queens?

 

[Sutty]

Yes. They don’t actually exist as functioning adult worker bees … so are they viable only as queens?

There genes also won't be spread by laying workers

 

[pargyle]

I think the use of the word supersedure might be an unintentional red herring, I got the impression that he was talking about emergency response despite the word used.

As for how these genetic lines exist, that's another interesting conundrum to add to this thread.

I've just watched the whole presentation - fascinating stuff - I picked up a few things - I think he agrees that there is some selection going on and it may be based on the bees selecting queen candidates from, let's call it, Royal lineage .. how they do this ? Well, who knows ? But it sits well alongside the two studies identified by the Apiarist. He does say (around Minute 46.0) that there is evidence that it is not just feeding that is the critical factor for the rearing of the best queens.

Just all fascinating stuff ...

 

[rolande]

Another, recent paper from Dr.Tarpy"s lab which complements this thread:

Group size influences maternal provisioning and compensatory larval growth in honeybees​

https://www.cell.com/iscience/fullt...m/retrieve/pii/S2589004223026238?showall=true

 

[J F]

Sorry to interrupt the academic debate but back OT....

Just come back to it after another 5 days away. Looks like a lot of drift has happened or I missed a QC and the queenright box has swarmed.

A badger or similar also knocked the super a bit leaving 1cm gap of open brood box for good measure... Too late and wet for an inspection today but I'll have a look tomorrow. Still bees in there though. Lot of dead drones stuck in the queen excluder....

 

[pargyle]

Sorry to interrupt the academic debate but back OT....

Just come back to it after another 5 days away. Looks like a lot of drift has happened or I missed a QC and the queenright box has swarmed.

A badger or similar also knocked the super a bit leaving 1cm gap of open brood box for good measure... Too late and wet for an inspection today but I'll have a look tomorrow. Still bees in there though. Lot of dead drones stuck in the queen excluder....

Why are there drones stuck in the queen excluder - were these trapped in the super ?