Adding queen cells to probable queenless swarm?

[Buzzlodge]

I hived a swarm 5 days ago but I think its very likely to be without a queen as the queen in the hive it came from was clipped, though its possible she was superceded. No eggs or queen seen so far.

I am thinking of adding a frame of brood with one or two capped queen cells from the hive they swarmed from.

My question is; Would adding the queen cells provoke further swarming if a queen is already present? Or would they just tear it down?

I presume if there is no queen present a new queen will emerge and take over. The swarm isnt very large, it fully covers four brood frame sides.

 

[eltalia]

Leave them be... at least another week.

Bill

 

[Repwoc]

I presume if there is no queen present a new queen will emerge and take over.

Not without eggs / young larvae. Swarms don't come with brood, so you would have to add a frame with eggs / young larvae to enable them to raise a queen.

As Bill said, give them more time. It could be a cast swarm with a virgin. If so it could be two to four weeks before she starts to lay. Were there any emerged QCs in the mother hive when they swarmed?

 

[Buzzlodge]

Thanks. My problem is that in another week I wont have any more queen cells as the ones in the 'parent' hive will have emerged. And if i wait for those emerged virgins to mate and lay in order to produce a frame of eggs to give to the swarm hive, it will be maybe another three weeks, by which time the swarm, if its queenless will be too old to rear them.

 

[Buzzlodge]

Not without eggs / young larvae. Swarms don't come with brood, so you would have to add a frame with eggs / young larvae to enable them to raise a queen.

Sorry, I wasnt clear. I have a frame with capped queen cells that I could add (but only in the next 2/3 days as i need to get them out of the parent hive). My query is if this is likely to cause the swarm to part swarm again (if so, bad idea).... or if bees would tear down the added QC if they already have a queen (if so, good insurance).

 

[eltalia]

Okay... more to calm your thought(s) then anything else I'll
throw the following in the ring.
Queenless 'swarms' are so rare the chance is insignificant.
Yet when found - again rare - the group is an abscond gone
wrong, usually absconds do not gather around the area they
left, they literally head for the hills on issue.
So, rather than 'test' the swarm with a viable QC, park one
or more up. You can do this insitu using a divider board in
the colony they are in. Just make very sure the board is tight
on all edges so the brood pheromone 'separates'.
This will give you the parent requeened and a "spare" inside
the division should your swarm not come good with eggs.

Your angst is understood, and quite 'normal' up until you get to
see the scenario time and time again. I personaly am not big
on swarms, simply as there is no way to know their origins as
opposed to cutouts and trapouts where you get to see the bees
at work - know their condition - but in the scores of swarms we've
been 'forced' to house never has one not had a queen, allbeit a
number ping off again in n0t liking what was given them.

Stay calm but focused, and ride that bucking bull. Heh

Bill

 

[MartinL]

Leave them be... at least another week.

OMG, concise and relatively accurate advice without egotistical prevarication.

Okay... more to calm your thought(s) then anything else I'll

. . . . . . . . Stay calm but focused, and ride that bucking bull. Heh

Bill

Spoke too soon... Must be kicking out time at the Troubadour!

 

[MartinL]

I am thinking of adding a frame of brood with one or two capped queen cells from the hive they swarmed from.

You may be robbing that hive of a virgin when / if you do???

My question is; Would adding the queen cells provoke further swarming if a queen is already present? Or would they just tear it down?

You're probably best not poking about too much with the hived swarm, If you have eggs in the other hive there's no need to worry about QC's for the new colony.
However, you should be considering that they could lead to more swarms from the original.

 

[eltalia]

OMG, concise and relatively accurate advice without egotistical prevarication.


Spoke too soon... Must be kicking out time at the Troubadour!

Have decko at this l0t;

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44915 post#9

"relatively" is redundant, largesse apparent - assuming you do actually
own experience with swarms over g00gln the content for your posts.

/chortles/


Bill

 

[Magwat]

If your bees swarmed with a clipped queen the swarm would have returned to the hive when they found the queen wasn't with them. They would then bide their time and swarm with a virgin when one emerges. You most likely have a virgin in your swarm.

 

[Repwoc]

Sorry, I wasnt clear. I have a frame with capped queen cells that I could add (but only in the next 2/3 days as i need to get them out of the parent hive). My query is if this is likely to cause the swarm to part swarm again (if so, bad idea).... or if bees would tear down the added QC if they already have a queen (if so, good insurance).

Hard to say what would happen as I've never tried adding swarm cells to a colony with a resident queen.

You could make up a nuc with a couple of the QCs as Bill said (I think). (Not sure about the divider idea - you would need to make a separate entrance.) Then you could unite if the swarm does prove to be Q-.