Added more Fondant- small amount left was frozen- wonder if ever a use for such as this?

[Camey]

Ok, I guess I must be bored ( not a footy fan )
Also strapping on my hard hat, if anyone reads this and wants to reply lol
Checked x3 hives yesterday- was sunny, no wind , no rain for once, around 5 deg C mind you.
I knew x1 was hefting really well, felt stuck to ground.
The other 2 not giving same confidence they had enough stores for winter.
So plan- a quick less than a minute open, check store on top of brood, and add more fondant.
I added around 6 kg to each hive
Noticed some fondant still left on top, guess around 1kg but was slightly concerned that is was frozen solid, despite same set up as normal, empty super, fondant in and right on top of brood on frame, kingspan on top of fondant, crown board and lid.
So while browsing around the tinternet tonight I came across this heated pad, specially made for gently heating hives in severe winters!! ( see pic)
It is from China- and not something I have ever considered or knew existed but--- what if you were in a situation where you felt your winter colony was of a smaller size and weight than you were happy with for getting through the winter and the hive was frozen under the insulation, would/could/should this ever be a consideration. Pad can be set at any temperature. I can see many issues - if too hot giving bees impression ambient temperature warmer than they think, using more stores ect, but, if hive was looking on way out as to cold, could at a push this be a possible rescue measure. I know this is not yer tradition approach and happy to be ripped a new one lol

 

[JamezF]

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. Temperatures have to be exceptionally low before fondant will genuinely freeze, even if it felt quite solid.

James

 

[pargyle]

Yep I agree with James ... it may feel solid but it is on top of the bars, under the crownboard and you have some insulation on top of the crownboard under the roof ... if they need it they will take it.

I'm a bit surprised that they need fondant this early in the winter ... what did they have in the way of stores at the end of the season and what have you fed them so far ...

You don't need to heat them ... bees are perfectly capable of heating themselves.

 

[Camey]

Yep I agree with James ... it may feel solid but it is on top of the bars, under the crownboard and you have some insulation on top of the crownboard under the roof ... if they need it they will take it.

I'm a bit surprised that they need fondant this early in the winter ... what did they have in the way of stores at the end of the season and what have you fed them so far ...

You don't need to heat them ... bees are perfectly capable of heating themselves.

I have tended to follow "the Apiarist" advise as he was based less than 5k from me in Fife, so after removing the summer honey, I treat and feed fondant, gave each hive a full 12.5kg slab end of August, and all gone , so topped up, Fife has been very mild late season with flying foragers finding nothing to forage on, thus using up energy and stores

 

[Anduril]

It has a thermostat to 50°C, I wouldn’t use it, however Finman has a set up of using very low wattage heating pads for his hives.

 

[drex]

Doubt whether it was frozen, probably just dried out and solidified. I see it if I have not wrapped the fondant up well in plastic.
Think about it. Heat rises.

 

[pargyle]

It has a thermostat to 50°C, I wouldn’t use it, however Finman has a set up of using very low wattage heating pads for his hives.

Yes ... but he uses them in spring to encourage an early build up - not to keep them warm in winter. His season in Finland is very short so he uses lots of tricks to get them up to full strength in order to maximise his crop.

 

[Anduril]

Yes ... but he uses them in spring to encourage an early build up - not to keep them warm in winter. His season in Finland is very short so he uses lots of tricks to get them up to full strength in order to maximise his crop.

Agreed but 120W is OTT

 

[pargyle]

I have tended to follow "the Apiarist" advise as he was based less than 5k from me in Fife, so after removing the summer honey, I treat and feed fondant, gave each hive a full 12.5kg slab end of August, and all gone , so topped up, Fife has been very mild late season with flying foragers finding nothing to forage on, thus using up energy and stores

OK ... so, they were not capable of stocking the brood box with their own stores after you took the honey off ? As you say it has been a very mild Autumn even in FIfe .. But I have relatives who live in St Andrews and whilst they are not beekeepers I was getting photos even up to a couple of weeks ago of plants in blossom. I recognise that St Andrews has a microclimate even within Scotland.

Whilst I would not wish to discourage you from following The Apiarist ... 12.5kg of fondant in August may well have been taken down into the brood nest and stored along with anything they brought in as forage. You could run the risk of reducing the amout of space the queen had to lay and a smaller wintering colony could result. This could also have a knock on effect with a smaller foraging force ... and may explain why they are now light on stores.

More so if you are running with a single national hive ?

 

[pargyle]

Agreed but 120W is OTT

Totally .... even in spring ... and to be honest I would not think even Fife has a climate akin to that in Finland where Finnie keeps his bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have tended to follow "the Apiarist" advise

opinion rather than advice

 

[Mabee]

OK ... so, they were not capable of stocking the brood box with their own stores after you took the honey off ? As you say it has been a very mild Autumn even in FIfe .. But I have relatives who live in St Andrews and whilst they are not beekeepers I was getting photos even up to a couple of weeks ago of plants in blossom. I recognise that St Andrews has a microclimate even within Scotland.

Whilst I would not wish to discourage you from following The Apiarist ... 12.5kg of fondant in August may well have been taken down into the brood nest and stored along with anything they brought in as forage. You could run the risk of reducing the amout of space the queen had to lay and a smaller wintering colony could result. This could also have a knock on effect with a smaller foraging force ... and may explain why they are now light on stores.

More so if you are running with a single national hive ?

David Adam’s advice to feed fondant is that they take it down slower than syrup therefore leaving more room for the queen to lay at a crucial time when she’s laying winter bees.

 

[Wingy]

I have one of those pads, however don’t recall it being thematically controlled? Think it got to 50 C as you state. I set mine under the OMF on a brood & 1/2 Langstroth, it was wired to a 12v battery and smart charger to keep the battery topped up. Did it as a bit of an experiment really to see if it made any difference between that colony and 2 others very similar. The heated colony seemed to be first to get going in spring but were soon caught up by the others. The heated colony used more winter stores but to be honest the difference was negligible and I’ve never used it since.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

David Adam’s advice to feed fondant is that they take it down slower than syrup therefore leaving more room for the queen to lay at a crucial time when she’s laying winter bees.

I think he's wrong there - seen them take it down just as fast when they are busily storing

 

[Newbeeneil]

I think he's wrong there - seen them take it down just as fast when they are busily storing

We all have different bees JBM. Mine take the sugar in syrup form down much quicker than fondant.

 

[user 6228]

an exposed position with wet windy weather at 5c can followed by clear night's at close to freezing can have worse heat loss than in a bee shelter in Finland at -20

 

[Ian123]

Are you sure it was frozen…..fondant will go hard if it dries, whilst happily accepting I’m in the soft south I’ve never seen or heard of fondant freezing solid. Or even those that see very cold temps reporting it.

 

[MeAndMyBees]

Ok, I guess I must be bored ( not a footy fan )
Also strapping on my hard hat, if anyone reads this and wants to reply lol
Checked x3 hives yesterday- was sunny, no wind , no rain for once, around 5 deg C mind you.
I knew x1 was hefting really well, felt stuck to ground.
The other 2 not giving same confidence they had enough stores for winter.
So plan- a quick less than a minute open, check store on top of brood, and add more fondant.
I added around 6 kg to each hive
Noticed some fondant still left on top, guess around 1kg but was slightly concerned that is was frozen solid, despite same set up as normal, empty super, fondant in and right on top of brood on frame, kingspan on top of fondant, crown board and lid.
So while browsing around the tinternet tonight I came across this heated pad, specially made for gently heating hives in severe winters!! ( see pic)
It is from China- and not something I have ever considered or knew existed but--- what if you were in a situation where you felt your winter colony was of a smaller size and weight than you were happy with for getting through the winter and the hive was frozen under the insulation, would/could/should this ever be a consideration. Pad can be set at any temperature. I can see many issues - if too hot giving bees impression ambient temperature warmer than they think, using more stores ect, but, if hive was looking on way out as to cold, could at a push this be a possible rescue measure. I know this is not yer tradition approach and happy to be ripped a new one lol

Hi Camey. . .
It was 5C (41F) here in the Scottish Borders, Yesterday, and the Bees were flying. Wow ! Cold and with Sunshine ! . . .Didn't expect them to show themselves. (They are Black Bee / Mongrel %. Hard as Nails !)
I left most of my Honey Stores for the Bees in the latter part of '23. Just an odd Frame taken 'for a Taste, and Taking a Jar or two, to our local Bee Assc Honey Show.
(Wasn't a good Bee Season re Summer last Year. So left most of the Honey in place.)
I always add in late Autunm, lots of Dry Sugar above the Frames and Bars : using a Piece of Newspaper, and also a Panel of Fine Mesh Plastic, with a Flap cut into it. (Mesh used as Windbreak* on newly Planted Trees etc.) Bees can access the Sugar easily. Nice and easy to Top up as necessary. Nice !
A case of Boots & Braces. To allow the Bees to access this Feed, [Sugar] without it crumbling and collapsing in the latter part of Winter* ! What use is the Sugar (if it all falls through the Frames onto Hive Floors.) As the 'Slabs' are nibbled away into smaller fragile Sections !?!
I have Hives of : Nats and Langs (Including a Horizontal Hive using Jumbo Deep Langs.) And several Warres (using Top Bars.)
I personally add Fondant (straight) say in Feb. Then a Slab Pack of Hive Alive in March. Subject to how go or bad (re length) our Winter is.
I add all Feed* into a Cut-Out in a large Block of Foiled Covered Insulation Foam / Above the Crown Board.
(Or *Long Mesh Sheet above the Frames in relation to me Feeding my Horizontal Hive. There is a good Space under their Cover Boards to add lots of Dry Sugar. (It's akso very well Insulated within its Walls and Roof Structure using Sheep's Wool !)
Any Dry Sugar (usually it goes rock hard with a bit of residual Hive Condensation.)
Come the end of Winter, it can be melted down into 1:1 Syrup (for Spring Buildup,) once the Cold Weather is over (no Freezing Nights to surprise us !)
In regards the that "Chinese Bee Heat Pad. " I would NOT use anything like that. . .
But to be impartial and put knowledge out there. . . On YouTube, there is a Beekeeper called "Bug Farmer" who had used Heat, I think at one time. (I'm not sure which USA State he is in. . . But some Regions of the USA get very Cold indeed. Talking -34C !!! (-30F) Thats very, very Cold indeed.
Like the Mid West (Areas including Indiana and Minnistota. YIKES !)
The Bug Farmer : In Videos in his Back Catalogue on Youtube : did show "Cables" leading to his Hives. I can't remember the full details, but they did look like a Warming System of sorts. Just saying. . .
Do your Research and make an 'Informed Choice' before doing any intervention ! Don't 'copy' for copy's sake. . .
Guess the Chinese Market : "Must have a Customer" somewhere !?! ("Stupid, Gullable or Nieve. . . We will never know ?")
Well done for "finding" the Oddest bit of Bee Gear seen, including that Image. . .
That (shouldn't) need to be "Manufactured" for a non issue ! Weird. . .
My Bees are all Cosy in their Hives.
In their Natural / Common sense way. No Crown Board Seals are Opened until mid March !!!
While their Beek, Writes this while having a Heatpad at their Back.
(It's Chilly today, as I use this Pad, probably made in China ! )

 

[pargyle]

Hi Camey. . .
It was 5C (41F) here in the Scottish Borders, Yesterday, and the Bees were flying. Wow ! Cold and with Sunshine ! . . .Didn't expect them to show themselves. (They are Black Bee / Mongrel %. Hard as Nails !)
I left most of my Honey Stores for the Bees in the latter part of '23. Just an odd Frame taken 'for a Taste, and Taking a Jar or two, to our local Bee Assc Honey Show.
(Wasn't a good Bee Season re Summer last Year. So left most of the Honey in place.)
I always add in late Autunm, lots of Dry Sugar above the Frames and Bars : using a Piece of Newspaper, and also a Panel of Fine Mesh Plastic, with a Flap cut into it. (Mesh used as Windbreak* on newly Planted Trees etc.) Bees can access the Sugar easily. Nice and easy to Top up as necessary. Nice !
A case of Boots & Braces. To allow the Bees to access this Feed, [Sugar] without it crumbling and collapsing in the latter part of Winter* ! What use is the Sugar (if it all falls through the Frames onto Hive Floors.) As the 'Slabs' are nibbled away into smaller fragile Sections !?!
I have Hives of : Nats and Langs (Including a Horizontal Hive using Jumbo Deep Langs.) And several Warres (using Top Bars.)
I personally add Fondant (straight) say in Feb. Then a Slab Pack of Hive Alive in March. Subject to how go or bad (re length) our Winter is.
I add all Feed* into a Cut-Out in a large Block of Foiled Covered Insulation Foam / Above the Crown Board.
(Or *Long Mesh Sheet above the Frames in relation to me Feeding my Horizontal Hive. There is a good Space under their Cover Boards to add lots of Dry Sugar. (It's akso very well Insulated within its Walls and Roof Structure using Sheep's Wool !)
Any Dry Sugar (usually it goes rock hard with a bit of residual Hive Condensation.)
Come the end of Winter, it can be melted down into 1:1 Syrup (for Spring Buildup,) once the Cold Weather is over (no Freezing Nights to surprise us !)
In regards the that "Chinese Bee Heat Pad. " I would NOT use anything like that. . .
But to be impartial and put knowledge out there. . . On YouTube, there is a Beekeeper called "Bug Farmer" who had used Heat, I think at one time. (I'm not sure which USA State he is in. . . But some Regions of the USA get very Cold indeed. Talking -34C !!! (-30F) Thats very, very Cold indeed.
Like the Mid West (Areas including Indiana and Minnistota. YIKES !)
The Bug Farmer : In Videos in his Back Catalogue on Youtube : did show "Cables" leading to his Hives. I can't remember the full details, but they did look like a Warming System of sorts. Just saying. . .
Do your Research and make an 'Informed Choice' before doing any intervention ! Don't 'copy' for copy's sake. . .
Guess the Chinese Market : "Must have a Customer" somewhere !?! ("Stupid, Gullable or Nieve. . . We will never know ?")
Well done for "finding" the Oddest bit of Bee Gear seen, including that Image. . .
That (shouldn't) need to be "Manufactured" for a non issue ! Weird. . .
My Bees are all Cosy in their Hives.
In their Natural / Common sense way. No Crown Board Seals are Opened until mid March !!!
While their Beek, Writes this while having a Heatpad at their Back.
(It's Chilly today, as I use this Pad, probably made in China ! )

Sadly, the member you are responding to has not been seen on here since last September .... If you click on the members name you can usually see the date when they were last active on the forum.

 

[MeAndMyBees]

Sadly, the member you are responding to has not been seen on here since last September .... If you click on the members name you can usually see the date when they were last active on the forum.

Didn't take note of last time this Member had been on this Forum Oops. Do now. . .
Maybe my 'Reply' might aid other Members, if they come across 'Camey's Question / Query. . [Maybe they are snuggled up indoors. And not actively talk Bee Talk?] Until the Season starts up again !?! . . .