Acetic acid question

[Sutty]

Corrosion to the metal and wires, or to the poly boxes themselves? Thanks

Minimal corrosion to metal parts and no effect on the polystyrene.

 

[Rory Fields]

Minimal corrosion to metal parts and no effect on the polystyrene.

You, sir, are my hero, thanks!

 

[Garry R]

Do you know if acetic is safe to use on poly though? Most of my hives are poly so would save a lot of faff and enable me to keep track of which supers velong to each colony if disease or a desire to be anal suddenky broke out. Cheers.

Don't know to be honest as the acetic never gers to see the poly. My gut feeling is that they would be fine. Get a bit of poly and soak it in acetic before risking a box;

 

[robmort]

Acetic acid is no problen with poly. After all it is similar, but 3000 times weaker than Oxalic and we use that on poly with gay abandon. See here

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Acetic acid is no problen with poly. After all it is similar, but 3000 times weaker than Oxalic and we use that on poly with gay abandon. See here

Define weaker. Especially glacial acetic acid which is what I use to fumigate boxes.

 

[drex]

I thought glacial was solid at room temp. I use 80%. No problem with polys

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I thought glacial was solid at room temp. I use 80%. No problem with polys

I warm the Acetic in a water bath when the temperature drops to the extent of solidifying then pour it into a shallow glass dish. Place that inside the enclosed space and leave for the treatment to work
80% also solidifies when winter comes around. I'm still intrigued how It's 3000 times "weaker" than Oxalic.

 

[JamezF]

I'm still intrigued how It's 3000 times "weaker" than Oxalic.

This is really my son's bag, but being a student he's probably having lunch about now and not answering his messages. However, as I understand it one measure of the "strength" of an acid is what proportion of the molecules have split off a hydrogen atom nucleus (a proton) when in solution, which ultimately is what gives the pH figure. I think it's usually expressed as a log scale and looking the values up suggests to me that the 3,000 figure is in the right ballpark, but may in fact be a little on the low side.

Disclaimer: I am not a chemist. I just happen to have (irregular) access to a tame one. It's probably forty years since I last did any "chemistry". I may be completely and utterly wrong.

James

 

[Rory Fields]

Don't know to be honest as the acetic never gers to see the poly. My gut feeling is that they would be fine. Get a bit of poly and soak it in acetic before risking a box;

I'd actually not even thought of that - too often I overthink simple things, thanks!

 

[Garry R]

I'd actually not even thought of that - too often I overthink simple things, thanks!

For safety the golden rule if you are diluting acid to the required strength is to strengthen the water not weaken the acid so, add the acid slowly to the water stirring it, not add water to the acid.

 

[hemo]

I use one folded square of kitchen towel as a wick in my small trays for my acetic to disperse the fumes better in a stack .

 

[robmort]

Define weaker. Especially glacial acetic acid which is what I use to fumigate boxes.

I have defined it but if you're too lazy to look at the reference.........

 

[Rory Fields]

Acetic acid is no problen with poly. After all it is similar, but 3000 times weaker than Oxalic and we use that on poly with gay abandon. See here

Cheers

 

[Rory Fields]

Acetic acid is no problen with poly. After all it is similar, but 3000 times weaker than Oxalic and we use that on poly with gay abandon. See here

I know 80% is the recommended strength for fumigation, but is that just tge threshold at which it becomes effective dyu know? Just there's 98% acetic at a better price and if it was more economic for large amounts of comb, I'm curious why people always recommend 80%? Apologies for my lack of chemistry knowledge

 

[Sutty]

I know 80% is the recommended strength for fumigation, but is that just tge threshold at which it becomes effective dyu know? Just there's 98% acetic at a better price and if it was more economic for large amounts of comb, I'm curious why people always recommend 80%? Apologies for my lack of chemistry knowledge

The pure stuff sets/melts at around 16C, which can make it awkward to handle. 80% stays liquid. You can dilute the pure stuff.

 

[hemo]

I buy 99.9% acetic in a bulk quantity and dilute it 5:1.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I have defined it but if you're too lazy to look at the reference.........

I'd comfortably touch oxalic acid crystals (briefly and clean up afterwards) whereas I'd use industrial PPE to handle glacial or high concentration acetic acid. Maybe your ideas of "strong" and mine vary significantly?
In a previous life I pumped some "interesting" stuff around a food process plant which if the general public knew what was in the items they were consuming would have created mayhem.
Food grade 36% Hydrochloric acid anyone? Maybe just a soupcon of Di-Ethyl-Aminoethyl Chloride perhaps?

 

[JamezF]

I'd comfortably touch oxalic acid crystals (briefly and clean up afterwards) whereas I'd use industrial PPE to handle glacial or high concentration acetic acid. Maybe your ideas of "strong" and mine vary significantly?

Having one in solid form and the other in solution is comparing hovercraft with eels though. Make up a similarly concentrated solution of oxalic acid and you'd not want your fingers anywhere near it.

If you care to trust Wikipedia, on the page for oxalic acid the first line of the second paragraph is:

"Oxalic acid has much greater acid strength than acetic acid."

(The reason being, as I understand it, that it is a more effective proton donor than acetic acid.)

James

 

[robmort]

The strength of any acid is clearly defined and measured chemically and is not a matter of opinion, though some people have weird ideas about anything.