Abelo 12 frame hive issue

[ali.m.1]

Hi

Newbie here.

I’ve got two hives, one wooden national and the other is an abelo 12 frame national.

My issue is that when I go to put the super back onto the brood box, I keep killing bees in the seam of the Abelo hive.

With the wooden national, you can sort of brush them off. But with the new abelo one, the seam prevents you from doing that.

Does anyone have any techniques for putting down the abelo 12 frame hive without killing any bees?

I hate the noise of them crushing to death!

Thanks

Alasdair

 

[ericbeaumont]

Does anyone have any techniques

Sell the 12 frame and buy instead the original Abelo 11-frame which has a format and box rim profile identical to wood National.

Why did you buy the 12-frame?

 

[local_beekeeper]

Little smoke will help, similar techniques as in the poly nucs from Maisemore or BS Honey. Don't go backwards

 

[ali.m.1]

Sell the 12 frame and buy instead the original Abelo 11-frame which has a format and box rim profile identical to wood National.

Why did you buy the 12-frame?

Thanks but that’s not very helpful… is it really that bad? I see plenty of other keepers using them.

I bought it after getting a recommendation, and after Black Mountsin Honey’s video on them.

 

[Anduril]

If you could devise something similar to a waggle wedge for your 12 frame Abelo, which can be easily googled and the use a little smoke as @local_beekeeper. Then the gradual movement of the wedges will mitigate the crushing of bees.

 

[user 20297]

Thanks but that’s not very helpful… is it really that bad? I see plenty of other keepers using them.

I bought it after getting a recommendation, and after Black Mountsin Honey’s video on them.

Over the last twelve months the 12-frame seems to have become the fashionable version of the Abelo and @ericbeaumont is only telling it how it is. The interlocks are handy to keep the integrity of a hive that's regularly shifted any distance; but that describes a nuc rather than a full hive.
It's really hard to see the nett gain from the newer hive, especially since the standard Abelo is so widely considered to be so good.

 

[Erichalfbee]

fashionable version of the Abelo

It has top space which might be an attraction.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Thanks but that’s not very helpful… I see plenty of other keepers using them.
I bought it after getting a recommendation, and after Black Mountsin Honey’s video on them.

Whether your apiary holds 2 or 22 colonies uniform equipment will lead to smoother working, less stress, greater management fluidity & compatibility and a whole lot more pleasure.

The 12-frame is a way for a business to spread their bets in a niche market and is common practice. For example, if you grew tomatoes and sold only tomatoes you would probably end the week with unsold stock that would rot or cost you to store. The way to maximise return, to make best use of stock, is to diversify and make tomato puree, tinned tomatoes, tomato juice, tomato soup and so on.

I doubt beekeepers asked Abelo to make a hive with one extra frame that had a different footprint to standard BS National, and in which 11-frame wooden boxes without lip rebates would not match 12-frame boxes with rebates.

Ask yourself: what good is one more frame? If the colony needs space, give it a box!

You may see beekeepers using the 12-frame hive and if you're a beginner starting from scratch then go ahead, buy into it (hello, Ian!) but be aware that you are now locked into that manufacturer, the price they choose to charge, and the length of production or time they stay in business.

For these reasons the 460mm square Modified National, specified first to a British Standard in 1946, is the closest we have to a universal British hive system, and the 11-frame Abelo National is the Rolls-Royce of poly National boxes because it is compatible equally with the National cedar box made by EH Taylor 74 years ago, or with a National box made last week from pallet wood to plans on Dave Cushman's A-Z by Sarfraz at number 47, Glyn Road, Barking.

I would encourage you to resist the temptation to follow internet advice or to follow in the footsteps of others, but to hold your own counsel and keep your beekeeping simple and uniform. It is the work you will do with bees and the techniques you embed in your memory that will make your beekeeping a pleasure and eventually a success, and not internet marketing or novelty.

is it really that bad?

It's not that it's bad, but that it's a seductive offshoot, a diversion, a variation from standard that nobody needs nor demanded, and it will make your beekeeping unnecessarily complex.

Is the Abelo 11-frame box that good? Yes, undoubtedly, every day, all day and for all purposes, and that is the most helpful advice I can give.

 

[ali.m.1]

Whether your apiary holds 2 or 22 colonies uniform equipment will lead to smoother working, less stress, greater management fluidity & compatibility and a whole lot more pleasure.

The 12-frame is a way for a business to spread their bets in a niche market and is common practice. For example, if you grew tomatoes and sold only tomatoes you would probably end the week with unsold stock that would rot or cost you to store. The way to maximise return, to make best use of stock, is to diversify and make tomato puree, tinned tomatoes, tomato juice, tomato soup and so on.

I doubt beekeepers asked Abelo to make a hive with one extra frame that had a different footprint to standard BS National, and in which 11-frame wooden boxes without lip rebates would not match 12-frame boxes with rebates.

Ask yourself: what good is one more frame? If the colony needs space, give it a box!

You may see beekeepers using the 12-frame hive and if you're a beginner starting from scratch then go ahead, buy into it (hello, Ian!) but be aware that you are now locked into that manufacturer, the price they choose to charge, and the length of production or time they stay in business.

For these reasons the 460mm square Modified National, specified first to a British Standard in 1946, is the closest we have to a universal British hive system, and the 11-frame Abelo National is the Rolls-Royce of poly National boxes because it is compatible equally with the National cedar box made by EH Taylor 74 years ago or with a National box made last week from pallet wood to plans on Dave Cushman's A-Z by Sarfraz at number 47, Glyn Road, Barking.

I would encourage you to resist the temptation to follow internet advice or to follow in the footsteps of others, but to hold your own counsel and keep your beekeeping simple and uniform. It is the work you will do with bees and the techniques you embed in your memory that will make your beekeeping a pleasure and eventually a success, and not internet marketing or novelty.


It's not that it's bad, but that it's a seductive offshoot, a diversion, a variation from standard that nobody needs nor demanded, and it will make your beekeeping unnecessarily complex.

Is the Abelo 11-frame box that good? Yes, undoubtedly, every day, all day and for all purposes, and that is the most helpful advice I can give.

Thanks a lot. That all makes sense.

I’ll give it a think and consider how much money I’d lose by switching hives.

Might be worth it now before I start expanding. I’m not a sissy, but I don’t like the sound of crushing the bees each time I put a box down.

So unless I find a solution (as suggested above by others), I will consider switching hive type.

Thanks!

 

[ericbeaumont]

I don’t like the sound of crushing the bees each time I put a box down.

Nor me, and I avoid it as much as possible, even to the extent of apologising to the dear thing as it wings its way to the afterlife.

 

[Erichalfbee]

the 11-frame Abelo National is the Rolls-Royce of poly National boxes because it is compatible equally with the National cedar box made by EH Taylor 74 years ago or with a National box made last week from pallet wood to plans on Dave Cushman's A-Z by Sarfraz at number 47, Glyn Road, Barking.

I hope Abelo really take note of this....and I'll chuck in their deep roof .
As far as I know they are not in this forum but perhaps they look in?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Nor me, and I avoid it as much as possible, even to the extent of apologising to the dear thing as it wings it's way to the afterlife.

Thank heavens I'm not the only one, then.

 

[user 20297]

It has top space which might be an attraction.

Distraction?

 

[steve1958]

I had the same problem and ended up getting rid of the Hive.
I replaced it with the regular abelo hive.
I did take the time to feedback to abelo my concern, and my interest in replacing it with one of their other Poly hives.
This resulted in a 10% discount so feedback is worthwhile.
I now have two eleven frame abelo hives with Deep Roofs,

 

[Ian Morton]

Whether your apiary holds 2 or 22 colonies uniform equipment will lead to smoother working, less stress, greater management fluidity & compatibility and a whole lot more pleasure.

The 12-frame is a way for a business to spread their bets in a niche market and is common practice. For example, if you grew tomatoes and sold only tomatoes you would probably end the week with unsold stock that would rot or cost you to store. The way to maximise return, to make best use of stock, is to diversify and make tomato puree, tinned tomatoes, tomato juice, tomato soup and so on.

I doubt beekeepers asked Abelo to make a hive with one extra frame that had a different footprint to standard BS National, and in which 11-frame wooden boxes without lip rebates would not match 12-frame boxes with rebates.

Ask yourself: what good is one more frame? If the colony needs space, give it a box!

You may see beekeepers using the 12-frame hive and if you're a beginner starting from scratch then go ahead, buy into it (hello, Ian!) but be aware that you are now locked into that manufacturer, the price they choose to charge, and the length of production or time they stay in business.

For these reasons the 460mm square Modified National, specified first to a British Standard in 1946, is the closest we have to a universal British hive system, and the 11-frame Abelo National is the Rolls-Royce of poly National boxes because it is compatible equally with the National cedar box made by EH Taylor 74 years ago, or with a National box made last week from pallet wood to plans on Dave Cushman's A-Z by Sarfraz at number 47, Glyn Road, Barking.

I would encourage you to resist the temptation to follow internet advice or to follow in the footsteps of others, but to hold your own counsel and keep your beekeeping simple and uniform. It is the work you will do with bees and the techniques you embed in your memory that will make your beekeeping a pleasure and eventually a success, and not internet marketing or novelty.


It's not that it's bad, but that it's a seductive offshoot, a diversion, a variation from standard that nobody needs nor demanded, and it will make your beekeeping unnecessarily complex.

Is the Abelo 11-frame box that good? Yes, undoubtedly, every day, all day and for all purposes, and that is the most helpful advice I can give.

Hello Eric.

You are right. The one issue I have with the 12 frame, and you have seen it first hand, is the number of bees that are unavoidably killed. The heavier the boxes, the harder it is to avoid. Drives me nuts. If there is a way to mitigate I'd really like to know how!

I bought them because I'm a hobbyist with no ambitions to grow; I only really want 2 X hives; the hives are in my garden (it's big enough); I studied garden design and the hives look elegant and modern in the garden.

They're also really warm and cosy, so the bees used much less fondant than I expected last winter and hopefully won't die on me if I treat for varroa.

But the bloody rebates! It's carnage.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hope Abelo really take note of this....and I'll chuck in their deep roof .
As far as I know they are not in this forum but perhaps they look in?

I saw on their FB page a couple of weeks ago that there's a big demand for their 12 frame hives up in Scotland at the moment - they were shifting palletloads up there

 

[ali.m.1]

I saw on their FB page a couple of weeks ago that there's a big demand for their 12 frame hives up in Scotland at the moment - they were shifting palletloads up there

Yes that’s where I am.

It could be to do with the rebates keeping the rain out.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It could be to do with the rebates keeping the rain out.

 

[Anduril]

I've got the ideal solution, if a 2 pronged fork assembly was made to cover the rebates. Then, when you replace a box, you simply slide the fork out and the box is firmly in place. Something for Abelo to develop to mitigate crushed bees.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I hope Abelo really take note of this....and I'll chuck in their deep roof .
As far as I know they are not in this forum but perhaps they look in?

my main gripe atm with abelo is all the discs in the crown board...i think there are 5 now which keep getting in the way....i think i heard someone on here gluing them down