A Welsh Flow Hive Harvest

[bontbee]

Politics now....lol.....
.....I think it does definitely have something extra....

You're right T - maybe the people who pooh-pooh it just don't have a very discerning palate. "Unspun" honey definitely has more subtlety than "spun" honey

 

[Swarm]

If you want to be patronising, perhaps it's just your imagination playing tricks with you, eh?
Honey will differ in taste throughout the season and also from one year to the next.
Nothing to do with politics but if claims like these are made, they are bound to be questioned. Especially when it's just repeating the same claims made in their advertising.

 

[Tremyfro]

If you want to be patronising, perhaps it's just your imagination playing tricks with you, eh?
Honey will differ in taste throughout the season and also from one year to the next.
Nothing to do with politics but if claims like these are made, they are bound to be questioned. Especially when it's just repeating the same claims made in their advertising.

I hope that remark about being patronising wasn't meant for me!
I know you are struggling with the whole concept of the Flow frames...I expect you hoped they would be a massive failure and then you could say...told you so...and feel rather smug that you hadn't wasted your money.
I can't help it if the frames worked ...just like the advert
Nor can I help it if the honey tastes a bit special.
Perhaps my tastebuds are imagining it....but everything that was said about the frames...was, in fact, true.
If I hadn't spent my money on them and then written about my experiences.....then the forum would not have been able to share the information.
It's not about making 'claims' or one upmanship...it's simply sharing. You don't have to read my posts and I don't mind questions or explaining.
More than anything....you don't have to believe me if you choose not to.

 

[Swarm]

I hope that remark about being patronising wasn't meant for me!
I know you are struggling with the whole concept of the Flow frames...I expect you hoped they would be a massive failure and then you could say...told you so...and feel rather smug that you hadn't wasted your money.

Climb down off your high horse, it was a direct reply to the post above it, anyone could see that. But since YOU are now being patronising ... I stopped replying to your posts a while ago, CVB brought up lost aroma, I replied to him, not you.
You know I am "struggling"? Coming from a novice beek at best, I had a good laugh at that insult. I don't give a monkeys about the whole concept, can't you work that out? I also don't care if they work or not, the most you've seen from me is direct response to spurious claims.

 

[For want of a better word]

Climb down off your high horse, it was a direct reply to the post above it, anyone could see that. But since YOU are now being patronising ... I stopped replying to your posts a while ago, CVB brought up lost aroma, I replied to him, not you.
You know I am "struggling"? Coming from a novice beek at best, I had a good laugh at that insult. I don't give a monkeys about the whole concept, can't you work that out? I also don't care if they work or not, the most you've seen from me is direct response to spurious claims.

ECHO

Nos da

 

[Tremyfro]

In this case...it is irrelevant whether I am a novice beekeeper or not...as we are talking about the Flow frames....and nobody can claim experience with them.
I really don't know why you bother to comment. For instance...you could have said....'a special flavour and aroma....I would love to try that....' Instead you refute that such a thing even exists.
Icanhopit....naughty....jumping on bandwagons...and so close to Christmas too....the toe of your stocking will be full of coal....still it will keep you warm until the New Year...lol

 

[oliver90owner]

Have not read much of this thread (for fairly obvious reasons), but please can you enlighten me on two facts.

1) How much honey did you harvest per flow hive.

and,

2) How much from your normal 'frame removal' type harvest.

Please stick to equivalent strength colonies, so excluding 'dribs and drabs' from nucs, poor colonies etc.

Just a real life, truthful comparison. Just wonering what the real cost of production might be between the two systems.

RAB

 

[Tremyfro]

Have not read much of this thread (for fairly obvious reasons), but please can you enlighten me on two facts.

1) How much honey did you harvest per flow hive.

and,

2) How much from your normal 'frame removal' type harvest.

Please stick to equivalent strength colonies, so excluding 'dribs and drabs' from nucs, poor colonies etc.

Just a real life, truthful comparison. Just wonering what the real cost of production might be between the two systems.

RAB

I'm sorry but I am not able to quote the figures you are interested in.
The Flow frames are langstroth size and all my other hives use 14x12 BS frames...or ordinary supers. Also my other colonies are mainly in beehauses so the brood size can expand a lot more than in a single langstroth.
I bought the Flow hive just for fun and to see if they actually worked...which they did. The flow frames themselves have deeper cells than you would have ordinarily.....unless you had progressively widened the shoulders of the frames year upon year.
I didn't actually weigh the honey from the flow frames...I didn't think it would be an important measurement. I do know what they filled though...so I will go back through my records and let you know.
This last summer was appalling for honey here. We only harvested enough for the family and left the rest for the bees.
I don't sell my honey so production isn't really an area of importance to me.
Perhaps I should keep more detailed records of honey production for each hive but since the queens change and so much depends on the weather...I'm not sure that anything useful to me would be revealed.

 

[Tremyfro]

I checked how much honey we got from the flow frames....the honey filled a 2 litre jar from each frame...some a little more and some a little less. We didn't get a completely full super as our nectar flow finished before they got the chance to finish filling it.
I have seen reports of 7 quarts...but I'm not sure if the frames were full. Also someone in Cambridgeshire had about 30 lbs. I don't know the details as regards how full the frames were.
I don't think there is any doubt that the bees are happy to fill them...we just don't always get a good enough flow....successive years will give a better idea. Of course, in OZ they do get continuous flows throughout the year...so I can see they would be great to use in those circumstances.
I'm sorry I can't give better answers.....perhaps next year!

 

[Beefriendly]

One of the beauty's of beekeeping is one can pursue one's own interests within the hobby, like flow frames. Thanks to Tremyfro we know that honey can be harvested from the flow frames. Which has quietened a lot of doubters, myself included in that.
It may prove less efficient (or more) than "normal" frames and extraction, but that misses the point that those who wish to use flow frames are probably not obsessed with yields of honey. They are just pursuing their hobby in a way that interests them.
One thing this debate has thrown up is the possible differences in taste from normally extracted vs flow frame drained.
To me, my heather honey cut comb does taste subtlety different to my extracted heather honey (it appears less strong flavoured). On tastings other people have preferred the cut comb to the extracted heather, although some have preferred the stronger tasting extracted stuff. The point being there does seem to be a difference.
Why they should taste different or are perceived to be different, I don't know.
Perhaps we should all gather for some blind tastings?

 

[Tremyfro]

I suppose it all comes down to your own taste and preferences. I'm not alone in thinking the honey from the Flow frames is a bit special....lots of other people have said the same. Although, it is more than possible that those other people have not tasted honey straight from the hive before...so may not be good advocates.
Mainly...the whole experience was tremendous fun...finding out that the frames worked and the extraction process...which proved to be amazing....was in itself reward enough.

 

[theeggman]

Go for it Tremy.

It's not for me, but you've put your head above the parapet and please keep giving us feedback.

WE may be in our 'we do it this way bunker' so please keep us up-dated.

 

[Tremyfro]

Go for it Tremy.

It's not for me, but you've put your head above the parapet and please keep giving us feedback.

WE may be in our 'we do it this way bunker' so please keep us up-dated.

Yay.....it's been a blast!
...but I'm also keeping bees and extracting in the more regular way too...so I'm still in touch with reality...ha ha

 

[bontbee]

If you want to be patronising, perhaps it's just your imagination playing tricks with you, eh?

I'm not sure which bit of my post was patronising - but isn't that?

Honey will differ in taste throughout the season and also from one year to the next.

Thank you, noted.

Nothing to do with politics but if claims like these are made, they are bound to be questioned. Especially when it's just repeating the same claims made in their advertising.

I did not refer to any advertising claims, (may I be so bold as to assume you are referring to Flow Hive advertising?) If my assumption is correct, when did I mention flow hives? I am not an advocate for flow hives. I posted on the forum that I thought their campaign would be construed as mis-selling under normal advertising regs. I can, however, believe that the honey extracted from flow frames does have a more subtle flavour than honey spun out of the comb. Having tried both spun and unspun honey - from the same honey flow, I don't need to rely on my imagination: I doubt it is vivid enough, or that I am clever enough, to think something like that up. I only know as I have tasted it! And, it is a fact that people's palates are different.

If you believe that all honey tastes the same, fine, but please don't sneer at others who experience it differently.

 

[pargyle]

If you believe that all honey tastes the same, fine, but please don't sneer at others who experience it differently.

Re-read Swarm's post - HONEY WILL TASTE DIFFERENT .....

He's right - honey does taste different - adjacent frames often have different flavours - it's all about what they forage on. As long as you are not heating honey I don't think the taste you get from chewing a piece of honey filled comb or a taste from your finger stuck in it is any different to the beautiful taste of my gently but normally extracted honey from the spinner !

And ... like I said about a zillion posts ago on this thread - if you want to validate a claim about taste - there's only one way - blind test it in a honey show ... or go and sell some to Joe Public and let them taste it blind.

 

[Swarm]

Come off it, Bontbee, you made the little dig about a discerning palate. It's ok for you but you don't like the reply.

How can you post a quote where I say honey flavour will differ and then accuse me of believing all honey tastes the same?
There are other things to be considered with honey taste, wax comb for example.

 

[bontbee]

You're both quite correct, my mistake and I apologise. What I meant to put was to respect that honeys from the same source, but extracted differently, taste differently. I did rush off that last sentence as I'd just had a call from the vet. I was pondering if I had worded it correctly as I was driving to the vet's, but I couldn't check/amend it, sorry.

However, I still don't understand your objection to "discerning" Swarm. Would you have been so offended if I had put "sensitive"? I'm sorry if it was only that word that caused offence.

Pargyle, I did do a blind tasting. Two adjacent, "identical", combs in 2014, one sample of spun honey, one the drainings from cut comb. I can't think of any way of getting a closer test.

 

[pargyle]

Pargyle, I did do a blind tasting. Two adjacent, "identical", combs in 2014, one sample of spun honey, one the drainings from cut comb. I can't think of any way of getting a closer test.

Ahh ... but who did the tasting ?

 

[bontbee]

Just me, which obviously isn't a scientifically reliable or significant test, but the difference was so striking it convinced me! I can only suggest that people try it for themselves. But, to come back to my original point, palates do differ so maybe not everyone will taste any difference between spun and unspun honey.

 

[TyCoed]

Hi all,
Well that was an exhausting read. I started at page one and getting this far has been like being tied to a chair and forced to watch Eastenders all day.
My favourite character was the original poster and I found myself inwardly cheering her on.
I am only a humble layman with a large garden in the Welsh hills and were it not for Flow hive advertising I would not be here. I now know that there's lots more to it but I am still interested and perhaps a new colony of native bees may still find a home at my abode.
Surely that's a good thing for the conservation of bees if I do it healthily and properly ?
But in anything I do, I really can't abide stuck in the mud, fuddy duddy, clubby, tribal nay sayers who have always done it thier way and will blindly argue against
anything new coming along.
Are these sorts of people in the majority within the beekeeping world or just the loudest ?
If they are then it's better to find out here while they are in full on forum " window wound up, doors locked road rage " mode.
Cheers, Will.