A way to combat CBPV?

[cwinte]

10 days elapsed: no dead bees out front since I made the changes. The plastic pot collector I used at first collected water, maybe from the downpours and/or condensation - so there were dead bees and a few that had got trapped but seemed fine to escape when released.
One from the wet looked like she might be a slimmed down queen - a bit longer and darker so I got her back inside - there was a bit of interest in her at the door but not lots, unsure.... Had been worried that might happen!
About 200ml of dead bees in 24h.
So I got rid of the pot and just used a tea towel under the funnel and wrapped around but this is not really making a seal. I can see that bees are still performing cleaning duties around that area and removing bees from the hive, sometime flying with them. There are also quite a few wasps but I think they are just feeding on some old bees, maybe the wasps will get the virus too??

Conclusions?

• to monitor death rates I need a better seal
• the area is still being regarded as part of the hive, but this is away from most of the hive activity
• there is a lot of wasp attention and a fully open base would be a problem
• the hive is still bringing in pollen and seems to survive OK for now

 

[bingevader]

We used MAQs on a hive with CBPV which seemed to help.
The other one, as mentioned, is more space.
If people are worried about wasps and robbing, then I wonder if a sump underneath (like the plastic pot suggested above) would also work.
A brood box on the original base below the new entrance?

 

[Karol]

<snip>. There are also quite a few wasps but I think they are just feeding on some old bees, maybe the wasps will get the virus too??

<snip>

Interesting question as to whether wasps get CBPV not least to understand whether wasps help by removing diseased bees or whether they act as a vector. I have never encountered wasps with symptoms of CBPV in the field but that's not to say they might carry the virus so I've done a little digging and found this little gem:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911050/#!po=24.4186
Table 1 seems to suggest CBPV is restricted to honeybees and no virus was found in polistes wasps. Not the same as vespine wasps but relatively reassuring especially given that vespine wasps operate quarantining and won't allow diseased foragers back into the nest. So on balance it's lilely that wasps are beneficial in removing infected/diseased bees.

Interestingly, the paper does quote ants as testing positive for CBPV!

 

[Wilco]

Interesting question as to whether wasps get CBPV not least to understand whether wasps help by removing diseased bees or whether they act as a vector. I have never encountered wasps with symptoms of CBPV in the field but that's not to say they might carry the virus so I've done a little digging and found this little gem:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911050/#!po=24.4186
Table 1 seems to suggest CBPV is restricted to honeybees and no virus was found in polistes wasps. Not the same as vespine wasps but relatively reassuring especially given that vespine wasps operate quarantining and won't allow diseased foragers back into the nest. So on balance it's lilely that wasps are beneficial in removing infected/diseased bees.

Interestingly, the paper does quote ants as testing positive for CBPV!

May have missed it but think it quotes them as testing positive for ABPV and KBV but not CBPV.

Edit: whilst going through the references used by the references in this paper, it looks like the data is based on some viruses (not CBPV) being found in the invasive Argentine Ant specifically. I'm not aware of that species of ant being in the UK anyway?

 

[Karol]

May have missed it but think it quotes them as testing positive for ABPV and KBV but not CBPV.

Edit: whilst going through the references used by the references in this paper, it looks like the data is based on some viruses (not CBPV) being found in the invasive Argentine Ant specifically. I'm not aware of that species of ant being in the UK anyway?

The paper quotes ants as being a vector. Reference 57 (Detection of Chronic bee paralysis virus (CBPV) genome and its replicative RNA form in various hosts and possible ways of spread) states this in its abstract:

"Detection of Chronic bee paralysis virus (CBPV) is reported for the first time in two species of
ants (Camponotus vagus and Formica rufa) and in Varroa destructor. A quantitative real-time
PCR (qPCR) method was used to detect and quantify CBPV in infected bees, ants and
mites. A minus-strand-specific RT-PCR was used to assess viral replication. These results
suggest a new way by which the infection may be spread and other sites of viral persistence
in the close apiary environment."

Formica rufa is the red wood ant and Camponotus vagus is the carpenter ant and both are found in the UK.

 

[Wilco]

The paper quotes ants as being a vector. Reference 57 (Detection of Chronic bee paralysis virus (CBPV) genome and its replicative RNA form in various hosts and possible ways of spread) states this in its abstract:

"Detection of Chronic bee paralysis virus (CBPV) is reported for the first time in two species of
ants (Camponotus vagus and Formica rufa) and in Varroa destructor. A quantitative real-time
PCR (qPCR) method was used to detect and quantify CBPV in infected bees, ants and
mites. A minus-strand-specific RT-PCR was used to assess viral replication. These results
suggest a new way by which the infection may be spread and other sites of viral persistence
in the close apiary environment."

Formica rufa is the red wood ant and Camponotus vagus is the carpenter ant and both are found in the UK.

Thank you, I stand corrected. Interestingly (and correlation does not mean causation), the only colony I had with signs of it this year was a nuc I was feeding syrup to, which ants were heavily raiding.

 

[Karol]

One way to stop ants getting into a hive might be to stand the legs of the hive (assuming the hive is on a stand) in small trays/saucers filled with DE.

 

[Sutty]

One way to stop ants getting into a hive might be to stand the legs of the hive (assuming the hive is on a stand) in small trays/saucers filled with DE.

DE?
Engine oil will work if you can arrange rain shelter.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But why?

 

[Murox]

DE?
Engine oil will work if you can arrange rain shelter.

But why?

To stop the legs from rotting?

 

[Sutty]

If all the legs are in a pool of oil or similar the ants can't cross it to get into the hive

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why all of a sudden are ants an issue? This paper isn't fact or even proof - or anything else for that matter.
Just another beekeeping obsession with killing anything non melliferan that comes near a hive.

 

[Sutty]

Why all of a sudden are ants an issue? This paper isn't fact or even proof - or anything else for that matter.
Just another beekeeping obsession with killing anything non melliferan that comes near a hive.

I was more thinking of people had a problem with ants raiding stores. The legs in oil technique doesn't kill them, just stops them getting in.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was more thinking of people had a problem with ants raiding stores. The legs in oil technique doesn't kill them, just stops them getting in.

I honestly don't know where this obsession with killing ants comes from - or this belief that they are a 'problem' and rob stores. I've had ants living near some of my hives for years - some using the top of the crownboard to incubate their eggs. Never witnessed them robbing out a colony though. Or even seeing a substantial amount inside the hive.

 

[Wilco]

I honestly don't know where this obsession with killing ants comes from - or this belief that they are a 'problem' and rob stores. I've had ants living near some of my hives for years - some using the top of the crownboard to incubate their eggs. Never witnessed them robbing out a colony though. Or even seeing a substantial amount inside the hive.

I've had a few nicking syrup from rapid feeders and in the nuc I mentioned there were usually a significant number helping themselves to it. I wasn't too bothered and left them too it. If there is a potential risk of spreading CBPV (i.e. If they do carry it, spread it to the syrup, the virus isn't killed by the concentration of the syrup and it's then ingested by the bees leading to infection) then I guess it may be worth considering trying to reduce ant access/exclude them but agree wanton killing is not the way. In my case as I said, correlation is not proof of causation but that was the one colony where there was evidence of CBPV in a couple of individual bees- not a large infection (as of last inspection).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In my case as I said, correlation is not proof of causation but that was the one colony where there was evidence of CBPV in a couple of individual bees

Conversely. As I said, many of my colonies have resident ants - the only CBPV infected colonies I've had had no evidence of ants

 

[Karol]

If a hive is infected within an apiary and is being visited by ants then there may be an argument to try to prevent the ants moving between hives. Not so much about killing them as precluding them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If a hive is infected within an apiary and is being visited by ants then there may be an argument to try to prevent the ants moving between hives. Not so much about killing them as precluding them.

as there is little evidence of hive to hive spread within an apiary, even with hives inches apart, I see there no argument for going on an ant killing spree

 

[Karol]

as there is little evidence of hive to hive spread within an apiary, even with hives inches apart, I see there no argument for going on an ant killing spree

What's your understanding JBM of how hives become infected in the first place?

Your post on the dangers of shaking out an infected hive was an interesting read and makes a lot of sense but isn't the whole point to stop inter hive infection from shaken out stray displaced bees?

 

[Sutty]

as there is little evidence of hive to hive spread within an apiary, even with hives inches apart, I see there no argument for going on an ant killing spree

Nor me, though exclusion isn't a "killing spree"!