A National hive constructed the same way as a Commercial hive?

[AlunAllcock]

You'll maybe sense my frustration after spending the past couple of days assembling National brood bodies and supers. My question is.....does anyone know of a manufacturer who sells National brood bodies constructed with finger joints and four pieces of wood the same way as a Commercial hive?? Seems like a winner to me with less material (cheaper) and far easier to put together. Thanks in advance

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

not really less material, if you made it the way you say the two end panels would have to be twice as thick to accommodate the long lugs on the frames.
The original Nationals (or simplicity/universal) were made that way until it was superseded by the 'modified' national we know today

 

[blackcloud]

Lug length is your ointment fly as jbm states.
However I do have a set of antique Nat supers with a plain end panel and finger holes as you describe but the internal width had been achieved with plywood boxing.
This had decomposed over the decades and I replaced it successfully with some solid timber to the same thickness.
You're unlikely to find what you want from a vendor so why not make your own?

 

[mbc]

A smith

 

[Garry R]

I use Langstroth poly hives with a fillet cut out lengthways to take national frames at right angles to the original direction and then cut a little off the lugs to fit (about Smith size). Use the fillet to fill in the original lug rest stuck back with gorilla glue. You can make the new fillet top or bottom bee space to suit yourself. They boxes take 12 frames no problem. Then you also have to cut a bit off the bottom to get the National depth BUT those bits make the eke for the winter when the fondant goes on. Have done this for about 40 years when the first poly hives came out and was shown how by Bernard Mobus in Aberdeen. Those hives are still going strong!! Anyone interested get in touch.

 

[blackcloud]

Wouldn't it be nice to just keep things simple and fully compatible without prior modification -especially if you have other Nationals.
How often are you going to be making up BBoxes in-season anyway?

 

[Boston Bees]

I use Langstroth poly hives with a fillet cut out lengthways to take national frames at right angles to the original direction and then cut a little off the lugs to fit (about Smith size). Use the fillet to fill in the original lug rest stuck back with gorilla glue. You can make the new fillet top or bottom bee space to suit yourself. They boxes take 12 frames no problem. Then you also have to cut a bit off the bottom to get the National depth BUT those bits make the eke for the winter when the fondant goes on. Have done this for about 40 years when the first poly hives came out and was shown how by Bernard Mobus in Aberdeen. Those hives are still going strong!! Anyone interested get in touch.

Sorry ... what's the point though?

Why not just buy national poly hives?

 

[Into the lions den]

Sorry ... what's the point though?

Why not just buy national poly hives?

At the time they did not exist..this was a long time ago I think... Mobus has been away from there for somewhere close to 40 years. Did not take Nationals either due to long lugs OR you had to have a very thin rebate (as was the case on the very first Nat Poly boxes to make them compatible with wood)..it was alsoAPPROX a Smith. An unholy guddle ( a good Scots word).

The Smith is a great hive...so simple...but considered the work of the devil himself by those who like long lugs (which are a British Isles peculiarity).

 

[Garry R]

I lived in Aberdeen and the polys were a new innovation with the advantage of their insulation many beekeepers 40 years ago had WBC hives fully aware of the insulation advantages of the double wall. The Langstroths (but not Nationals then) were available in poly but many of us had National frames so cutting off the lugs and the making adjustments seemed sensible. I have just added few brood boxes to the stock over the years to maintain my own personal compatability/standardisation of equipment which we are all advised to do no matter what hive type we use. Hope this explains my apparent eccentricity!!

 

[JamezF]

However I do have a set of antique Nat supers with a plain end panel and finger holes as you describe but the internal width had been achieved with plywood boxing.

I have a similar brood chamber. No idea where it came from.

James

 

[Brian Bush]

My old beekeeping friend is a carpenter by trade. Now in his eighties he has reduced is number of hives following a fall in his out apiary. A few years ago he dabbled in 14x12 brood boxes but found them too heavy and has been using double brood since. He is now experimenting with a national brood box modified to take commercial length frames. He wants to keep the long lug feature od the National and easy lifting by the side bars of the box.
He has built a brood box to National dimension but longer. Using National frames he has used commercial hoff man side bars and 14x12 foundation trimmed down to fit. He thinks he is on a winner! I am a little sceptical but will watch with interest.

 

[madasafish]

Langstroths are so much simpler and more logically designed