3 mile rule - an old wive's tale?

[Oaktreepotter]

Moving house nearby in a week or two and have moved my bees beyond the normally recognised 3 miles, with a view to moving them to their new location in the Spring. I was just wondering where this 3 mile 'rule' came from ?

A few months ago, one of my hives swarmed (missed a QC!) into a neighbours garden. I recovered them and returned them to an empty brood box a few yards from their original site. Both hives continued to do well but I've been puzzling ever since why the swarmed bees didn't return to their original hive? This got me thinking that perhaps the 3 mile rule is something all beekeepers are told when they first take up the hobby and pass on to others without ever testing it. If I were to move my bees 100yds to my new house, would they really all come back to their old site, as we have always been taught, or is it an old wive's tale? My theory regarding the swarm is that the bees stay where their queen is, which is why they are happy to stay in their new home. So if I move the hives over the garden wall, logic suggests they will stay with the queen and not return. What do others think? The scientist in me would appreciate a case study or two if anybody has one. Thanks

 

[ratcatcher]

the 3 mile rule does not come into play when they have SWARMED, people have moved bees more than 3ft but less than 3 miles, by creating an effect that makes the bees think a tree has fallen, plus shutting them inside for 48hrs etc, but you'll notice most of those people, still put a nuc back on old spot to catch bees that still fly home...

try it out whats the worst that can happen....loss of bees

 

[Hivemaker.]

Have you ever done an artificial swarm.

 

[oliver90owner]

Have you ever done an artificial swarm.

Or made any splits?

Or made up nucs from the colonies in the same apiary?

This claim coming from a beek with twelve colonies amazes me. A newbie might not undestand the reasons for it, but...

Why does every beekeeper need to test the rule? It works.

would they really all come back to their old site

No. Only the flying bees!

I suggest you do your own test, if you have never noticed anything yet. Simple enough.

 

[user 6228]

...So if I move the hives over the garden wall, logic suggests they will stay with the queen and not return. What do others think? The scientist in me would appreciate a case study or two if anybody has one. Thanks

There are numerous papers on the net on Bee navigation including on what is reset or not reset after swarming. While I havent come across a direct proof of the 3 mile rule, the navigation mechanisms referred to do reinforce that idea. But one must always remember that the group behaviour of tens of thousands of individuals, even with communication is a probability distribution not raw boolean logic.

 

[rockdoc]

From my own experience, the 'rule' depends to a degree on terrain. I moved a cut-out just over a mile away to a quarry over open countryside and had no returnees. However a delayed swarm relocation of just over a mile through mixed farmland saw about 200 bees return to their original spot. I think you will find the 'rule' is generally borne out by most and is a good precaution to adopt. All change, of course, in the depths of winter when I've moved hives about easily during prolonged periods of below zero.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Don't need to do a case study.

When a colony swarms the bees 'reprogram' to a new location and forget where they used to live. Otherwise all bees that ever swarmed ever in the world ever would be back in the same nest. Interesting prospect. One colony of bees the size of Luxemburg.


The 3 mile rule is to stop bees flying over terrain they recognize and then flying back to their old hive location which some damn beekeeper has moved for them. (Bees generally fly up to a couple of miles - terrain and forage dependent. They may fly less or more). 3 miles is a safe rule. For me 2 miles isn't a problem either - my out apiary is about 2 miles from my main one. If bees did go back they'd find a hive to go in anyway!

 

[BeeJayBee]

I've never tested the 3 mile rule, but have been slowly moving one colony to a new site within our garden and tried moving it a little more than 3ft in one go to see what happened. Ended up with a load of very confused bees hanging onto a tree.

It's astonishing that they can navigate to a patch of flowers a few miles away, but, if it's been moved more than 3ft, can fail to find the huge box they've always called home.

 

[drstitson]

interestingly our european counterparts manage perfectly well using multiples of m and km.

 

[For want of a better word]

3 mile rule - an old wive's tale?


Tis just a "Rule of Thumb"......Degrees of latitude and longitude would better describe the distance for moving bees, plus the phase of the moon and angle of the suns rays and not forgetting the season of the year !
#

works for me !

 

[Oaktreepotter]

Don't need to do a case study.

When a colony swarms the bees 'reprogram' to a new location and forget where they used to live.

Hi Hebeegeebee,

To quote Victor Meldrew "I don't believe it". This sounds more like HG Wells than the BBKA. Where did you get this quote from?

But if you're right and I'm wrong, why don't they reprogram themselves when I move them 100yds down the road?

 

[MuswellMetro]

LASI at Univeesity of sussex said in their july lecture said that the 3miles rule was variable during the year and that august it could be over 4 miles andd May only 2 miles

does this paper help

http://eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/27081/1/10(2)_P87-96.pdf

or this abstract

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347283711929

has anyone got the access to the full document rather than just an abstract?

 

[tonybloke]

Don't need to do a case study.

When a colony swarms the bees 'reprogram' to a new location and forget where they used to live.

Hi Hebeegeebee,

To quote Victor Meldrew "I don't believe it". This sounds more like HG Wells than the BBKA. Where did you get this quote from?

But if you're right and I'm wrong, why don't they reprogram themselves when I move them 100yds down the road?

the answer is in the word 'swarm' !

you have done artificial swarms, I take it?

 

[MuswellMetro]

i had to move a colony 15ft last month due to an emergency but it was the only hive that side of the apiary and i had to take a chance, they would find home

after a week the forages stilled arrive at the old site and turned through 90 degree then 15ft to the side of the hive and walked around to the entrance

 

[Andy Duff]

Have you ever done an artificial swarm.

Or made any splits?

Or made up nucs from the colonies in the same apiary?

This claim coming from a beek with twelve colonies amazes me. A newbie might not undestand the reasons for it, but...

Why does every beekeeper need to test the rule? It works.

would they really all come back to their old site

No. Only the flying bees!

I suggest you do your own test, if you have never noticed anything yet. Simple enough.

Save on typing, this would have done-----

 

[RoseCottage]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10209

All the best,
Sam

 

[Stickyfingers]

I just made up a nuc less about 15ft away. Put a couple of obstacles in the way a closed them up for a couple of days. Lost a handful of bees. Certainly with new queen doesn't seem to be an issue moving less than 3 miles.

 

[Poly Hive]

Looks as if someone needs to do some reading.

It is indeed true that when a colony swarms the swarm experiences a "mind wipe" and forgets their original orientation information.

The three mile rule is a general one and is best kept to until some experience is gained.

Ignore it at your peril and considerable risk to the bees.

PH

 

[Stickyfingers]

Looks as if someone needs to do some reading.

It is indeed true that when a colony swarms the swarm experiences a "mind wipe" and forgets their original orientation information.

The three mile rule is a general one and is best kept to until some experience is gained.

Ignore it at your peril and considerable risk to the bees.

PH

Reading is not the issue. A rule of thumb is a guide, yes one of good practice but at the end of the day it's what ever works given the limitations and restrictions that apply to every individuals circumstances. Not everyone can apply the 3 mile rule so one has to be realistic and way up the risks.

 

[oliver90owner]

and way up the risks.

That's the trouble. Some don't and don't know how to. And then there are those that don't even think the rule is there for any good reason, or doesn't apply to their bees.