2 other elementary questions

[Cuckmere couple]

1. can you mix up species of bees easily...i.e add a locally mated local queen into a colony of buckfast?

2. one of my colonies was a swarm in June. The queen was laying already and she was a very prolific layer through late summer. Does this mean she is likely to need replacing this year as she was already laying or, is a queen that swarmed from a colony not likely to swarm again the following year or can they swarm every year? I will just keep an eye on her and see but i wondered if there is a general expectation from a queen who swarmed whilst already laying

 

[masterBK]

They are not separate species. All honey bees in the UK (and Europe) are one species Apis mellifera . There are several subspecies plus human selected strains like Buckfast. Most of the honeybees in the UK are mongrels (like the humans in this country) & have traits (and genes that bring them about) from several of these subspecies due to imports over many years. You can certainly introduce your local queen but some are more difficult to requeen with a different strain than others.

There are two likely possibilities regarding your swarm queen. Sometimes after swarming the queen (usually two or more seasons old) is superseded naturally often in the autumn (occasionally they wait til spring). If they don't do this then they are likely to swarm the folllowing year unless you stop them. I personally requeen all swarms using queens reared from breeder queens selected from colonies that have not shown any intentions of swarming in the previous two or more seasons. Over the last few decades I now find that no more than two or three of my 25 colonies make swarm preparations and last year none of them did ). Part of this is down to using demaree system to pre-empt swarm preps. Last year very few colonies in my county area swarmed so I expect next year wil be a bumper one for swarms!

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks MBK

 

[For want of a better word]

Bees swarm.
Some bees swarm more than others
If you have a strain that has a swarmy trait and you breed from it that swarmy trait may be passed on.
If you requeen your colony... you will never know!

There are areas of the UK that have conserved native stock of Apis mellifera mellifera, however some beekeepers do not seem to be able to accept this fact.

Where beekeepers have imported stock of other subspecies there is a predominately mongeralised bee population... some better than others as they have adapted over time to local climatic and forage conditions.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thats really helpful both (MBK and Cheers) thanks

i will keep an eye on her and look for supersedure signs or swarm signs

i have 3 colonies and want to expand

was thinking of leaving two for honey and using 3rd to make up some spring nucs (wish i had done so last autumn to over winter)

problem is

colony 1 has a queen of our own entering her 3rd year
colony 2 is a buckfast (purchased nuc last year) which had 3 attempts at supersedure in autumn and i destroyed the successive capped q cells (now wish i hadnt)
colony 3 is the swarm we caught with a laying queen

so i need to figure out a plan which i guess revolves around observing them in march?

 

[Murox]

thats really helpful both (MBK and Cheers) thanks

i will keep an eye on her and look for supersedure signs or swarm signs

i have 3 colonies and want to expand

was thinking of leaving two for honey and using 3rd to make up some spring nucs (wish i had done so last autumn to over winter)

problem is

colony 1 has a queen of our own entering her 3rd year
colony 2 is a buckfast (purchased nuc last year) which had 3 attempts at supersedure in autumn and i destroyed the successive capped q cells (now wish i hadnt)
colony 3 is the swarm we caught with a laying queen

so i need to figure out a plan which i guess revolves around observing them in march?

For what its worth my immediate thoughts :-
Colony 1 - if this queen has been satisfactory to your needs/wants - she may well be superseded during the coming year, so I would consider allowing and even encouraging that and utilise her offspring. - think about the source of drones any virgin queen will meet.
Colony 2 - I would be tempted to requeen this one, depends on how the colony comes out of winter and how well it builds up.
Colony 3 - wait and see - you may have a very swarmy colony or you may not.
So many variables and many ways of doing things .

 

[Swarm]

Some colonies can be stubborn to accept an introduced queen and will throw up emergency cells to replace her. Even when they have no more of their own genetics to use, they will bump off the new queen and bring on their own from her eggs.
Three attempts to supersede with a bought in nuc would suggest a queen problem, I'd be inclined to squash her on a fence post.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks Swarm

we left her because she was very prolific and a number of people said Buckfasts can do that so destroy the capped cells (only ever one at a time)

Should have let them get on with it perhaps

 

[Beefriendly]

I'll bet you added her into a nucleus of local bees.
Mine did the same nearly every time, they seemed to hate having "foreign" queens. Next season when all the brood was from the new queen they were fine. Now I add new queens to nucs of Buckfast bees, the slack Alice's will accept anything with queen pheromones.
But keep an eye on her, you do get occasional duds.

 

[B+.]

I'll bet you added her into a nucleus of local bees.
Mine did the same nearly every time, they seemed to hate having "foreign" queens. Next season when all the brood was from the new queen they were fine. Now I add new queens to nucs of Buckfast bees, the slack Alice's will accept anything with queen pheromones.
But keep an eye on her, you do get occasional duds.

Mike Palmer explains it very well in this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oYzD_u2Yos
I've had plenty of queens posted from NL and Germany. When I introduce them this way, they're usually accepted

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I'll bet you added her into a nucleus of local bees.
Mine did the same nearly every time, they seemed to hate having "foreign" queens. Next season when all the brood was from the new queen they were fine. Now I add new queens to nucs of Buckfast bees, the slack Alice's will accept anything with queen pheromones.
But keep an eye on her, you do get occasional duds.

actually it was a whole nuc of buckfast bees from pay@@s

they did really well and gave 3 supers of honey and laid up well

when we checked for varroa treatment in dec there was still loads of capped brood

something must be up with her but tempted to watch and see how she goes...if they do raise another q cell...ill probaly let them get on with it but then ill be moving to a mongrel queen unless i requeen with another buckfast etc

tempted to try to switch to only home bred queens if i can

 

[Cuckmere couple]

For what its worth my immediate thoughts :-
Colony 1 - if this queen has been satisfactory to your needs/wants - she may well be superseded during the coming year, so I would consider allowing and even encouraging that and utilise her offspring. - think about the source of drones any virgin queen will meet.
Colony 2 - I would be tempted to requeen this one, depends on how the colony comes out of winter and how well it builds up.
Colony 3 - wait and see - you may have a very swarmy colony or you may not.
So many variables and many ways of doing things .

thanks for this....have taken note and good advice

 

[Swarm]

actually it was a whole nuc of buckfast bees from pay@@s

they did really well and gave 3 supers of honey and laid up well

when we checked for varroa treatment in dec there was still loads of capped brood

something must be up with her but tempted to watch and see how she goes...if they do raise another q cell...ill probaly let them get on with it but then ill be moving to a mongrel queen unless i requeen with another buckfast etc

tempted to try to switch to only home bred queens if i can

That is why I mentioned possible problem with the queen, it was a bought in nuc and therefore her own offspring. If it were a bought in queen then nothing unusual, as they will sometimes persist until the new genetics outnumber the old.
How were your local bees? I would follow your instincts and try raising your own queens.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

our own queens have been good

i know that 2nd or 3rd generation buckfassts can be problematic so think we will try to stay local...though i hear you do need new blood from time to time

isnt there a problem with using daughters of the same strain after a while or does it depend on the drones?

i guess you have to use the same line if you are wanting to continue a particular trait and use the drones for new genetics?

 

[Swarm]

You are locked into buying queens to maintain them. If your local, open mated queens produce nice colonies, I'd stick with them. You don't need to worry about bringing in new blood, you cull the bad and keep the good.
Do you know the beekeepers around you? Good things can be achieved with a group working toward the same goal, queen sharing, providing nucs, etc.
In many ways, far more interesting and rewarding than buying a new queen.

 

[Eyeman]

You are locked into buying queens to maintain them. If your local, open mated queens produce nice colonies, I'd stick with them. You don't need to worry about bringing in new blood, you cull the bad and keep the good.
Do you know the beekeepers around you? Good things can be achieved with a group working toward the same goal, queen sharing, providing nucs, etc.
In many ways, far more interesting and rewarding than buying a new queen.

 

[Beefriendly]

That is why I mentioned possible problem with the queen, it was a bought in nuc and therefore her own offspring.

That's not exactly how the nuc business works......It's add bees (any source) plus queen (your choice) when she lays you have a nuc to sell. Not all sellers but quite a lot.

 

[For want of a better word]

That's not exactly how the nuc business works......It's add bees (any source) plus queen (your choice) when she lays you have a nuc to sell. Not all sellers but quite a lot.

Can be that a swarm is thrown in a nuc with queen and all... and sold to some poor unsuspecting newbee as a nuc!

Fortunately the pros ( one hopes) would not do this?

 

[Poly Hive]

Would that not be rather obvious given there would be no sealed brood?

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Would that not be rather obvious given there would be no sealed brood?

PH

Yes.... but to a desperate for bees beginner?