2 other elementary questions

[Cuckmere couple]

You are locked into buying queens to maintain them. If your local, open mated queens produce nice colonies, I'd stick with them. You don't need to worry about bringing in new blood, you cull the bad and keep the good.
Do you know the beekeepers around you? Good things can be achieved with a group working toward the same goal, queen sharing, providing nucs, etc.
In many ways, far more interesting and rewarding than buying a new queen.

very helpful Swarm and i think my preferred route...yes i attend the association meetings and have a couple i particularly talk to and will be able to do so

 

[ShinySideUp]

Some colonies can be stubborn to accept an introduced queen and will throw up emergency cells to replace her. Even when they have no more of their own genetics to use, they will bump off the new queen and bring on their own from her eggs.

Happened to me last summer. Hive swarmed and the remaining bees refused to have a queen. They brought on queen cells and failed to get a queen, used a test frame, bought in a queen but every time they were without. In the end I united what was left of a sad little colony with another small one and now they are (so far) doing well together.

 

[Beefriendly]

Would that not be rather obvious given there would be no sealed brood?

PH

I think they have the brains to wait a little while before selling.....Although it's not unknown for frames of brood to be added.

 

[iann41]

if this was me, I'd replace all 3 queens with bought in stock from a reliable breeder.

 

[Poly Hive]

I agree with Iann and give yourself a level starting point.

PH

 

[Cuckmere couple]

I agree with Iann and give yourself a level starting point.

PH

thanks Iann and Poly

getting on a strong footing with a queen is clearly an objective i need to achieve this year

was originally (before being tempted for local queens) going to get 3 mated queens and keep them in nucs (with brood from each colony) and run them alongside the 3 colonies as an insurance whilst observing what happens with the queens - i had some trouble introducing last year and lost 3 purchased queens following the advice above meticulously

 

[Eyeman]

thanks Iann and Poly

getting on a strong footing with a queen is clearly an objective i need to achieve this year

was originally (before being tempted for local queens) going to get 3 mated queens and keep them in nucs (with brood from each colony) and run them alongside the 3 colonies as an insurance whilst observing what happens with the queens - i had some trouble introducing last year and lost 3 purchased queens following the advice above meticulously

Queen introduction is the most unpredictable part of my beekeeping. That's why there are so many different techniques. Much easier introducing a locally reared queen than one bought in from outside.

 

[Poly Hive]

And there is another anecdotal statement.

Is this actually proven?

PH

 

[birdsandbees]

regarding introducing queens, I always use push in cages now, thus far every queen has been accepted after a week in the clink gradually being introduced to emerging inmates.

I may have just been lucky but if it works it works.

I also don't remove attendants, apparently this is controversial too, I was told by one queen breeder that you HAVE to remove them or they WILL reject her, he said that this is what he tells his buyers and if they don't that's their hard luck but it means he can sell more to them.

As I said proof is in the pudding and the last seven of different races and host colonies were all fine.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

i think ive used push in cages

you mean the ones with queen inside and fondant at one end and leave between two frames for a few days, then remove clip and let them eat fondant out?

 

[Repwoc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtuR_8sgvI

 

[TooBee...]

Mike Palmer explains it very well in this clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oYzD_u2Yos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvtuR_8sgvI

Thanks for the links, I'm now converted!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I also don't remove attendants, apparently this is controversial too,

Contoversial amongs the usual mantra followers maybe who read the instructions ref imported queens then decided it was 'the law' to remove them

I also don't remove attendants, apparently this is controversial too, I was told by one queen breeder that you HAVE to remove them or they WILL reject her, he said that this is what he tells his buyers and if they don't that's their hard luck but it means he can sell more to them.

I never remove attendants and use either JzBz cages or the plastic posting/introduction 'puzzle' cages. Touch wood, haven't had one go wrong yet

 

[For want of a better word]

i think ive used push in cages

you mean the ones with queen inside and fondant at one end and leave between two frames for a few days, then remove clip and let them eat fondant out?

That would be a Butler cage....... link from Mike Palmer explains push in cage.

I now make my own push in intro cages from bent up travel screen... push them well into the drawn foundation...
Did buy a couple of the plastic version intro cages from Beckys Bees... not deep enough and plastic pegs fell off!

 

[birdsandbees]

Did buy a couple of the plastic version intro cages from Beckys Bees... not deep enough and plastic pegs fell off!

I have a few from Beckys bees too, as you say, they are a bit shallow and the bees dig under them quite quickly, you return to let her out and she's already been let out! I much prefer the home made ones I have.

 

[Eyeman]

regarding introducing queens, I always use push in cages now, thus far every queen has been accepted after a week in the clink gradually being introduced to emerging inmates.

I may have just been lucky but if it works it works.

I also don't remove attendants, apparently this is controversial too, I was told by one queen breeder that you HAVE to remove them or they WILL reject her, he said that this is what he tells his buyers and if they don't that's their hard luck but it means he can sell more to them.

As I said proof is in the pudding and the last seven of different races and host colonies were all fine.

Sounds a bit like extra work!.If your taking the queen out of whatever transport cage and then putting her under a push in cage why add the attendants? Always a good idea to dip the queen in water or give her a quick spray before handling her to reduce chances of her flying off.

 

[Eyeman]

Contoversial amongs the usual mantra followers maybe who read the instructions ref imported queens then decided it was 'the law' to remove them



I never remove attendants and use either JzBz cages or the plastic posting/introduction 'puzzle' cages. Touch wood, haven't had one go wrong yet

I'm a belts and braces sort of guy so would always remove any attendants if I was buying in a queen. As I requeen approx 50+ colonies each years with my own reared queens I rarely have to worry about attendants unless I'm keeping her caged overnight.

 

[Eyeman]

I have a few from Beckys bees too, as you say, they are a bit shallow and the bees dig under them quite quickly, you return to let her out and she's already been let out! I much prefer the home made ones I have.

In approx 25% of my push in cage introductions the queen has already been released. All home made PIC's - queen being released seems to be related to the longer she is left and the bigger the cage. Take the usual precautions.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I find the twin chute intro cages work well, not used as often these days as most introductions are now done direct, even did a couple of direct introductions to a couple of laying worker hives last season at the end of the heather flowering time, did not really expect it to work, but it did.

 

[birdsandbees]

Sounds a bit like extra work!.If your taking the queen out of whatever transport cage and then putting her under a push in cage why add the attendants? Always a good idea to dip the queen in water or give her a quick spray before handling her to reduce chances of her flying off.

I don't specifically not remove them, I just release them all onto the comb under the cage, so less work in fact

Regarding your other comment - as I'm only a hobbyist they are usually checked after 7 days, if they've dug her out by then and all is okay that's fine.