1st Split Attempt

[ericbeaumont]

Home often do you check the brood box?

If you check the BBs every 7 days then you will be on top of development, because in that period a colony won't go from a bursting population of bees but zero QCs to about 15 cells at the last inspection on Sunday of which a couple of them quite big and already capped!

lots of very young larva and eggs and open brood and the best queen cell in the original colony. The bees in the original colony are still too many

There lies a recipe for swarming. Better outcome would have been to hive the queen on her frame in a new box of foundation on the original site, and make up as many nucs as you wish with good QCs and the brood and bees.

Like previous years they will be off in a day or two.

Not if you take action today: open up and look for QCs, open or closed. Make up nucs with sealed QCs, brood, stores and bees, leave one good open QC and leave them alone for three weeks, after which check for eggs.

If you find that a virgin has emerged, make up nucs and/or knock down the rest of the QCs. Populate the nucs with bees shaken in from the supers. Shake bees from all combs to make sure you haven't missed any QCs.

If Dani is correct and a virgin has emerged, you still have an opportunity to prevent a swarm but must go in now and establish colony status.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry I thought that was the box with the one queen cell left.

 

[italic63]

Home often do you check the brood box?

I was checking it once a week before I split them

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you have loads of capped cells does letting all the virgins out at once work in stopping a swarm?

 

[italic63]

I can’t enlarge the video on my phone. Have a look if those bees have nasanov glands exposed.

Most of the ones on the face of the hive have gone back in and some are bearding and some fanning. Hope the couple of photos and video help

 

[italic63]

Most of the ones on the face of the hive have gone back in and some are bearding and some fanning. Hope the couple of photos and video help

 

[ericbeaumont]

If you have loads of capped cells does letting all the virgins out at once work in stopping a swarm?

Yes, but Mr Italic could use them to make up a few nucs to cover for winter loss, and to run two colonies.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Most of the ones on the face of the hive have gone back in

Yes, but have you gone back in? Photos of fanning bees doesn't tell us much. You must go in today and establish what is going on, or stand back and let the bees take control.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I was checking it once a week before I split them

a bursting population of bees but zero QCs to about 15 cells at the last inspection on Sunday of which a couple of them quite big and already capped

If you go in on day 1 and find no QCs, but bees start building them as soon as you put the roof back on, the QCs will be sealed on day 8 or 9, at which point (given good weather and no change of mind) the bees will swarm.

However, if you check weekly and arrive on day 7 you will usually find nearly-sealed queen cells and the queen, and you can take action by splitting or carrying out an AS as described earlier: box of foundation on the old site + queen on her frame + flyers. Move all else and split as you wish.

You were lucky to find the queen and sealed QCs, but this is an occasional bonus on which you must not rely.

 

[italic63]

Yes, but have you gone back in? Photos of fanning bees doesn't tell us much. You must go in today and establish what is going on, or stand back and let the bees take control.

So while I'm having a look would it help to shake some bees in the queened nuc or perhaps put in a second super to give them more room?

 

[robmort]

Are you sure you only left one QC in the old hive?

 

[italic63]

I think so. Shook the bees off once I'd moved the queen and checked as well as I could

 

[ericbeaumont]

So while I'm having a look would it help to shake some bees in the queened nuc or perhaps put in a second super to give them more room?

No, because until you know the colony status you're not in a position to decide what to do. For example, if a virgin is running around and you shake BB bees into your Q+ colony, you might shake in a virgin.

Room at this stage is of no use in preventing swarming because space was an issue about 3 or 4 weeks ago, not today. It may help with nectar storage.

A swarm is composed of three parts, and to stop bees leaving (temporarily) you need to separate one part only: brood, flying bees or queen.

In your case you moved the queen and left the flyers and brood, but also young larvae which gave them the option to make more QCs, other than the one you left initially.

To be certain that removal of the queen works, you should have gone back in after 5-6 days and removed all other QCs. If you didn't the first virgin out in a strong colony will swarm.

Is the queen now laying in the nuc?

 

[italic63]

No, because until you know the colony status you're not in a position to decide what to do. For example, if a virgin is running around and you shake BB bees into your Q+ colony, you might shake in a virgin.

Room at this stage is of no use in preventing swarming because space was an issue about 3 or 4 weeks ago, not today. It may help with nectar storage.

A swarm is composed of three parts, and to stop bees leaving (temporarily) you need separate one part only: brood, flying bees or queen.

In your case you moved the queen and left the flyers and brood, but also young larvae which gave them the option to make more QCs, other than the one you left initially.

To be certain that removal of the queen works, you should have gone back in after 5-6 days and removed all other QCs. If you didn't the first virgin out in a strong colony will swarm.

Is the queen now laying in the nuc?

That makes sense. Thanks. I was going to have a look today to destroy any new queen cells but freaked out when I saw them like that

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think so. Shook the bees off once I'd moved the queen and checked as well as I could

And did you go back 5/6 days later to remove more?

 

[ericbeaumont]

destroy any new queen cells

I would encourage you to make up nucs (1 of brood, 1 of stores, whatever combs or foundation to hand + bees) to give you insurance this season and coming winter, but also allow you to run two colonies which will give more experience more quickly.

 

[italic63]

Not yet. That was going to be my plan for today but stopped when I saw them out like that

 

[italic63]

I would encourage you to make up nucs (1 of brood, 1 of stores, whatever combs or foundation to hand + bees) to give you insurance this season and coming winter, but also allow you to run two colonies which will give more experience more quickly.

That's what I tried to last Sunday. Queen plus two frames of capped brood plus stores plus bees in a separate hive and they seem to be fine.

 

[ericbeaumont]

they seem to be fine.

Is Q still there and laying?

 

[italic63]

Is Q still there and laying?

Queen is still there and moving around nicely but no laying as of a couple of days ago (5 days after the split).