1 brood box, 2 queen cells.

[haily]

I have a few years beekeeping experience with helping out an old neighbor but this is my first year on my own after he sadly passed away! In may, his son give me an overwintered nuc and at first everything seemed it was going to plan when the colony was building up until I went on holiday for 10 days. I came home today to find no queen, no eggs or larvae and 8 capped Qcs and one hatched!

I have an extra brood box, floor, CB and insulated roof and I'm going to split this colony into 3 but have a few questions about the splits.

Originally I was going to knock down all QCs apart from one capped but I'm afraid the newly emerged queen mightn't get mated or doesn't make it back alive so decided to do a split with 1 QC in each BB for back up if one queen doesn't make it.

Next season I was going to expand my colonies by buying in another 1 or 2 overwintered nucs but now with all these queen cells I'm thinking this is a perfect opportunity to do so but as of now, I don't have the extra equipment so have another plan.

I have an extra piece of timber that can be cut to size to sit in the middle of the extra brood box which brings me to my next question. Can i put 1 frame with a QC, brood and nurse bees on each side and close down with insulation on 3 frames and feed.

So to summarize, ln the main hive the virgin queen will stay with most of the brood, stores etc.. and in the new brood box in different location, there will be 3 frames on each side.1 frame of brood, nurse bees, QC and 2 frames of foundation and feed!

Ideally all 3 virgins will mate, main hive will build up to a strong colony before winter and the other 2 will be on 3,4 or even 5 frames for over wintering and come next season, I'll have 3 colonies instead of buying in more bees.

 

[jonnybeegood]

I have a few years beekeeping experience with helping out an old neighbor but this is my first year on my own after he sadly passed away! In may, his son give me an overwintered nuc and at first everything seemed it was going to plan when the colony was building up until I went on holiday for 10 days. I came home today to find no queen, no eggs or larvae and 8 capped Qcs and one hatched!

I have an extra brood box, floor, CB and insulated roof and I'm going to split this colony into 3 but have a few questions about the splits.

Originally I was going to knock down all QCs apart from one capped but I'm afraid the newly emerged queen mightn't get mated or doesn't make it back alive so decided to do a split with 1 QC in each BB for back up if one queen doesn't make it.

Next season I was going to expand my colonies by buying in another 1 or 2 overwintered nucs but now with all these queen cells I'm thinking this is a perfect opportunity to do so but as of now, I don't have the extra equipment so have another plan.

I have an extra piece of timber that can be cut to size to sit in the middle of the extra brood box which brings me to my next question. Can i put 1 frame with a QC, brood and nurse bees on each side and close down with insulation on 3 frames and feed.

So to summarize, ln the main hive the virgin queen will stay with most of the brood, stores etc.. and in the new brood box in different location, there will be 3 frames on each side.1 frame of brood, nurse bees, QC and 2 frames of foundation and feed!

Ideally all 3 virgins will mate, main hive will build up to a strong colony before winter and the other 2 will be on 3,4 or even 5 frames for over wintering and come next season, I'll have 3 colonies instead of buying in more bees.

Are you sure the hatched Q hasnt left with a cast?

 

[haily]

Are you sure the hatched Q hasnt left with a cast?

I don't know, I looked through the hive to see if i coukd spot her but unfortunately I didn't she her. If a virgin queen takes flight between 21-28 days she could have either thrown a caste or is in there somewhere. Do VQs not wait until another QC hatches before throwing a caste though.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I have an extra brood box, floor, CB and insulated roof and I'm going to split this colony into 3 but have a few questions about the splits.

Originally I was going to knock down all QCs apart from one capped but I'm afraid the newly emerged queen mightn't get mated or doesn't make it back alive so decided to do a split with 1 QC in each BB for back up if one queen doesn't make it.

Next season I was going to expand my colonies by buying in another 1 or 2 overwintered nucs but now with all these queen cells I'm thinking this is a perfect opportunity to do so but as of now, I don't have the extra equipment so have another plan.

I have an extra piece of timber that can be cut to size to sit in the middle of the extra brood box which brings me to my next question. Can i put 1 frame with a QC, brood and nurse bees on each side and close down with insulation on 3 frames and feed.

So to summarize, ln the main hive the virgin queen will stay with most of the brood, stores etc.. and in the new brood box in different location, there will be 3 frames on each side.1 frame of brood, nurse bees, QC and 2 frames of foundation and feed!

Ideally all 3 virgins will mate, main hive will build up to a strong colony before winter and the other 2 will be on 3,4 or even 5 frames for over wintering and come next season, I'll have 3 colonies instead of buying in more bees.

I think this http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/natsplit.html is the sort of thing you might be thinking of?

If you want to put more than one colony inside a single brood box you need to make sure you use division boards between each one. They need to fit tight to the walls, roof and floor so the bees can't get at each other, and you need a separate entrance for each colony.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

 

[haily]

the sort of thing you might be thinking of?

If you want to put more than one colony inside a single brood box you need to make sure you use division boards between each one. They need to fit tight to the walls, roof and floor so the bees can't get at each other, and you need a separate entrance for each colony.

Apologies if I've misunderstood.

Yes, this is what I was thinking, thank you! One thing though, when you say bees can't get at each other is it so bees don't touch each other or for scent., What if there's a small 1.5-2mm gap where both the middle pieces of timbers meet when brood box sits on floor.

 

[BeeJayBee]

What if there's a small 1.5-2mm gap where both the middle pieces of timbers meet when brood box sits on floor.

They'll probably propolise it closed, but it might upset the colony dynamics. I honestly don't know how critical the size is because, although I do have a nuc with a division board that touches the floor, walls and roof with no gaps, I've never yet used it. I haven't needed to because I dummy down a poly nuc for a very small single colony.

You'll be better off reading Dave Cushman than for me to paraphrase.

The division board is sometimes called a follower board and as it is the full internal dimensions of the hive, with no bee spaces around it, it can be used to 'partition off' part of a bee hive, to render it less useful to the bees or it can be used to fill minor gaps at the ends of groups of frames. In some circumstances it can be used to separate independent nucs.​

(read more on the website http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/divisionboard.html

 

[YorkshireBees]

It's hard to tell without seeing the number of bees etc. but I think (like jbg) that the 1st queen to hatch has left with a cast swarm.

If she has decided to stay then she would have run round and killed the other queen in their cells.
Virgin Queens are very hard to spot and tbh most of the time you wouldn't want to go looking for them but I would advise assuming that she left.

Again in terms of how many times you can split the colony depends a lot of how many bees are left!

 

[Finman]

.
You have one box if bees. Propably swarmed.

Now you split it to three with queen cells and you want strong colonies for winter.

Queen cells are able to lay in the middle of August. New bees in nucs start to emerge in September. If everything goes well, wintering nucs may have 2 frames of bees for winter.

 

[yeogi75]

you don't say how many hives you have, as finman says you have plenty of time, and if you have more hives you can take frames of brood to boost the nucs , but only now not when they are making winter bees as you will reduce you main hives of bees for winter.

 

[jonnybeegood]

you don't say how many hives you have, as finman says you have plenty of time, and if you have more hives you can take frames of brood to boost the nucs , but only now not when they are making winter bees as you will reduce you main hives of bees for winter.

I think finmans saying they dont have plenty of time, only 2 frames of brood to go into winter?

 

[yeogi75]

I think finmans saying they dont have plenty of time, only 2 frames of brood to go into winter?

yes but added frames from donator hives will boost from two frames to how many frame can be added before reducing his main hives.

 

[haily]

you don't say how many hives you have, as finman says you have plenty of time, and if you have more hives you can take frames of brood to boost the nucs , but only now not when they are making winter bees as you will reduce you main hives of bees for winter.

This is my one and only hive, it was to start me off on my own and next year had planned to get another one or two. I might be able to get a frame of brood from another beekeeper I know if needs be. If I consistently feed, insulate I'm.sure they could be strong enough for winter. Would you not agree.

 

[haily]

.
You have one box if bees. Propably swarmed.

Now you split it to three with queen cells and you want strong colonies for winter.

Queen cells are able to lay in the middle of August. New bees in nucs start to emerge in September. If everything goes well, wintering nucs may have 2 frames of bees for winter.

That was the process I had in mind but I see your point, however I'm prepared to take my chances. Maybe a poly BB could help the 2 frames overwintering. If not, I should at least take 1 frame as back up in case the VQ has thrown a caste because if I knock all QCs down now, the bees could die out and if I leave just one, if the virgin is still in this hive, she will swarm with a caste.

 

[Eyeman]

If one QC has emerged then the other 8 may not be far behind. I would gently open 1 or 2 of the most mature QC's (those with nice brown tips) and see the stage of development. If 2 virgins crawl out then remove remaining QC's for your planned nuclei and you now know that the original colony has a virgin (or 3). The original colony won't swarm as you have removed the remaining QCs and any vigins will sort them selves out.
If the QCs you opened aren't mature then you haven't scuppered your original option as you still have 6 QCs to play with.

 

[Finman]

That was the process I had in mind but I see your point, however I'm prepared to take my chances. Maybe a poly BB could help the 2 frames overwintering. If not, I should at least take 1 frame as back up in case the VQ has thrown a caste because if I knock all QCs down now, the bees could die out and if I leave just one, if the virgin is still in this hive, she will swarm with a caste.

Polyhive will not help you. 2 brood frame hive on autumn is just too small. In June it would be OK.

In your case get a laying Queen and keep that one hive. IT is now midd July and you will get really a good colony for Winter. But first you should learn to listen experienceds' advices

Prepared to take chances ....you have not a chance. No one can succeed with your time scale. No one.

 

[B+.]

2 brood frame hive on autumn is just too small. In June it would be OK..

I agree with Finman.
If you read elsewhere on this forum, people are saying that queens are taking 3-4 weeks to mate. Even if you had an emerged virgin now, that would still put you into August before she began to lay (assuming everything went well - which it rarely does). At that late stage in the year, a nucleus would be hard pressed to build up in time for winter (and fend off attacks from robber bees, wasps, etc).
IMHO you should be looking to consolidate and prepare for winter. Its unfortunate that they chose to swarm while you were away, but this often happens with bees.

 

[haily]

Polyhive will not help you. 2 brood frame hive on autumn is just too small. In June it would be OK.

In your case get a laying Queen and keep that one hive.

Prepared to take chances ....you have not a chance. No one can succeed with your time scale. No one.

Can you answer me this finman, if 2 frames isn't enough to over winter with then how is it other beeks can successfully overwinter with apedias!

 

[B+.]

Can you answer me this finman, if 2 frames isn't enough to over winter with then how is it other beeks can successfully overwinter with apedias!

You need lots of young bees going into winter but, without a queen laying eggs until sometime in August, your colony will already be in decline.
You should not grasp at a few isolated cases as being the norm. A single, or even double Apidea is still a very small comb area. They wouldn't be able to store enough food

 

[Finman]

Can you answer me this finman, if 2 frames isn't enough to over winter with then how is it other beeks can successfully overwinter with apedias!

I can too over Winter a two frame colony in Finland even we have - 20C here. But that colony is not able to read brood in spring. I help over wintering with 3W electric heating.

Other beeks speak rubbish when they say that they over winter colonies in apidea. Lost of beeks have difficulties to keep colonies alive even in summer.

But Hailey, you just do it. It is not my business.

I know a guy, who wants to be rid of Natural Laws. It is something.

 

[haily]

You need lots of young bees going into winter but, without a queen laying eggs until sometime in August, your colony will already be in decline.
You should not grasp at a few isolated cases as being the norm. A single, or even double Apidea is still a very small comb area. They wouldn't be able to store enough food

What should I do if my plan for this hive isn't ideal.