1 brood box, 2 queen cells.

[B+.]

What should I do if my plan for this hive isn't ideal.

You need a mated queen as soon as possible so the colony can continue preparing for winter.
With a single hive your options are limited. You can't make so you have to buy (unless you know someone who can give you a mated queen).
Inidentally, taking bees away from your colony which has already swarmed to make apideas so you can get the queen cells mated would also be a mistake. I haven't seen your colony so I can't know how many bees are left but many years of experience tells me that you shouldn't consider depleting a weakened colony.

 

[haily]

You need a mated queen as soon as possible so the colony can continue preparing for winter.
With a single hive your options are limited. You can't make so you have to buy (unless you know someone who can give you a mated queen).
Inidentally, taking bees away from your colony which has already swarmed to make apideas so you can get the queen cells mated would also be a mistake. I haven't seen your colony so I can't know how many bees are left but many years of experience tells me that you shouldn't consider depleting a weakened colony.

What if I can't get a mated queen and what if I put a mated queen in with a virgin queen. If it hasn't thrown a caste already, would adding a queen not guarantee this

 

[B+.]

What if I can't get a mated queen and what if I put a mated queen in with a virgin queen. If it hasn't thrown a caste already, would adding a queen not guarantee this

If you try to introduce a mated queen into a hive that already has a virgin they would, in all probabiliy, kill the mated queen. So, you have to take steps to ensure that isn't the case. One method would be to put a queen excluder under the brood box and shake each frame out infront of the hive. The bees would march back in but the drones and any queen would be unable to pass through the excluder (unless you have a very small queen). You could then inspect the queen excluder and despatch any queens you find. Personally, I prefer to introduce a mated queen under a push in introduction cage (the travelling cage doesn't allow the queen to lay eggs).

 

[haily]

If you try to introduce a mated queen into a hive that already has a virgin they would, in all probabiliy, kill the mated queen. So, you have to take steps to ensure that isn't the case. One method would be to put a queen excluder under the brood box and shake each frame out infront of the hive. The bees would march back in but the drones and any queen would be unable to pass through the excluder (unless you have a very small queen). You could then inspect the queen excluder and despatch any queens you find. Personally, I prefer to introduce a mated queen under a push in introduction cage (the travelling cage doesn't allow the queen to lay eggs).

But the virgin queen will be able to pass through the QE because she isn't mated yet.

 

[beeno]

Hi Haily,
Let's keep this simple. The original Q has left with prime swarm. You have got one emerged virgin in the box. In dummied down spare hive put one frame with multiple QC and adhering nurse bees, another frame with sealed brood and adhering nurse bees, shake two frames of adhering nurse bees into dummied down hive after having given them a light shake to get rid off foragers, one pollen (if you have any) nectar/honey/1:1 sugar syrup. No QC in parent hive because the virgin is in there and make as sure as you can be that she is not on the frames you carry over. All the QC can be left in the nuc because they are not strong enough to swarm and they will sort themselves out. You may end up with two mated queens, or you may have to unite back. The reason we don't advocate a three way split is because you have lost the prime swarm i.e. no eggs or larvae. Good luck and be quick.

 

[Finman]

.
IT is better to read first beekeeping book and not to try with extremes.

.

 

[pargyle]

.
You have one box if bees. Propably swarmed.

Now you split it to three with queen cells and you want strong colonies for winter.

Queen cells are able to lay in the middle of August. New bees in nucs start to emerge in September. If everything goes well, wintering nucs may have 2 frames of bees for winter.

I agree ... there are quite a few new beekeepers still getting Nucs in my area and some of them have not been the best quality ... one person was even sold a nuc with a virgin in it, a couple of cupsful of bees and very little brood - as you say - it's going to be hard to get a colony up to sufficient strength for winter starting from scratch now.

If you are intent on doing it then I would beg or buy some mated queens for the Nucs (forget using the queen cells) and if you can get them up and running by the end of July you have a fair chance of some nice strong nucs to overwinter. You may have to feed them before you close them up for winter but that's a judgement call later on. The way you are going is not a good plan IMHO.

PS: Just seen B+ offering very similar advice - follow that - you need mated queen(s).

 

[pargyle]

Hi Haily,
Let's keep this simple. The original Q has left with prime swarm. You have got one emerged virgin in the box. In dummied down spare hive put one frame with multiple QC and adhering nurse bees, another frame with sealed brood and adhering nurse bees, shake two frames of adhering nurse bees into dummied down hive after having given them a light shake to get rid off foragers, one pollen (if you have any) nectar/honey/1:1 sugar syrup. No QC in parent hive because the virgin is in there and make as sure as you can be that she is not on the frames you carry over. All the QC can be left in the nuc because they are not strong enough to swarm and they will sort themselves out. You may end up with two mated queens, or you may have to unite back. The reason we don't advocate a three way split is because you have lost the prime swarm i.e. no eggs or larvae. Good luck and be quick.

This is not good advice ... it's just too late and too risky. Your bees will be too thin on the ground and your virgins won't be laying for some time after they emerge.

 

[B+.]

But the virgin queen will be able to pass through the QE because she isn't mated yet.

You seem to have this mixed up. A queen excluder is a narrow grid that prevents queens and drones from passing through. A well fed virgin would also be prevented from passing. A poorly fed one would be stunted and (possibly) pass through if she is small enough. Such queens are little bigger than workers and quite difficult to find.

 

[haily]

At 3pm today I split the hive in 3 because couldn't locate a new Queen locally and didn't want to leave it any longer in case the QCs hatched and threw a caste. Another option was to break them all down and hope there was a virgin still in the hive but didn't want to take that chance.

What I have in the new brood box is 3 frames of brood with 1 QC and 2 frames of foundation. In the other side of it, is 1 frame with small amount if brood and 1 QC. Both getting feed 1:1 and have insulation in both sides. In the main hive is the hatched QC with a potential virgin on 4 frames of brood. Feeding this hive 1:1 as well.

I know it isn't ideal but my reason for this plan was, if there's no virgin queen in the main hive, I'll have back up when the others mate. I could unite them all back if only one VQ comes back mated. In the meantime I'll try and locate a new queen and reverse everything and remove the VQs if I can find them. IMHO that's the best method I could have came up with at this time though I'm open for correction on that one.

 

[beeno]

This is not good advice ... it's just too late and too risky. Your bees will be too thin on the ground and your virgins won't be laying for some time after they emerge.

Hi Pargyle,
I am talking swarm control not increase here. Bear in mind that you are talking to beginners that can not find a mated queen never mind a virgin. We don't know the strength of the colony, so leaving sprung virgins may very well lead to a cast swarm if strong enough and there is a flow on. Anyhow final outcome worse than any suggestions. In the end every beek does what he or she wants.

 

[Erichalfbee]

so leaving sprung virgins may very well lead to a cast swarm if strong enough and there is a flow on

I thought leaving lots of virgins in one hive was fairly foolproof?

 

[Swarm]

so leaving sprung virgins may very well lead to a cast swarm if strong enough and there is a flow on

I thought leaving lots of virgins in one hive was fairly foolproof?

Aye.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Pargyle, In the end every beek does what he or she wants.

In this instance the OP seems to have done the one thing that everybody seems to have advised against anyway !

 

[jonnybeegood]

But the virgin queen will be able to pass through the QE because she isn't mated yet.

Hally its not the abdomen swelling after mating that stops them going through the Queen excluder, its the bigger thorax.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Bear in mind that you are talking to beginners that can not find a mated queen never mind a virgin.

This thread is in the general section, not the beginners, and OP does say they have "a few years beekeeping experience" so it's worth assuming they know what they want to do but just want to refine the details.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I'm loving the fact that this thread is occurring in pretty well pure ignorance of where the OP is based.

ADD

This thread is in the general section, not the beginners, and OP does say they have "a few years beekeeping experience" so it's worth assuming they know what they want to do but just want to refine the details.

A 10-day holiday in May... ENDADD

 

[beeno]

This thread is in the general section, not the beginners, and OP does say they have "a few years beekeeping experience" so it's worth assuming they know what they want to do but just want to refine the details.

If we are going to be picky, she is first year on her own and has little confidence in being able to find a virgin by her own admission. Also, I got the idea that the beginners section was created to stop 'newbie bashing'.

It is very easy to make the wrong assumptions on the forum as we all find out time and time again. What is experience anyway 'some people have a thousand experiences and others the same experience a thousand times'.

 

[B+.]

What is experience anyway 'some people have a thousand experiences and others the same experience a thousand times'.

Can I choose which experience I have a thousand times?