DRone congregation areas

drex · May 11, 2017

I now cull queens whose colony's show undesirable traits. This to stop her spreading her genes supposedly, through swarming or via her drones. It is the drones that are bothering me. I have read that drones fly to DCA's relatively close to their hive, but queens will fly to DCA's further away, to limit in breeding. Hence the traits of drones from my apiary, should not be passed onto virgins from my apiary.
I ask because I have a TBH that I try to run on a minimum intervention basis. The bees are more bad tempered than I would usually tolerate.
If what I have said above is true, having been gleaned from reliable books, then these drones should not affect my lineages????
I am not that up on genetics and breeding behaviour, so perhaps someone more knowledgeable, can tell me if I am thinking along the right lines.

colinc · May 11, 2017

They will be breeding with your close neighbours and their drone offspring can then mate back in a few generations time[emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

birdsandbees · May 11, 2017

I've often thought about this, those of us carefully trying to select for calmness (among other attributes) only benefit the offspring of others or feral colonies! though eventually I suppose what goes around comes around.

jenkinsbrynmair · May 11, 2017

drex said:
If what I have said above is true, having been gleaned from reliable books, then these drones should not affect my lineages????

But you're happy for them to affect others' ?

pargyle · May 11, 2017

What you have read is largely what is true as far as anyone knows .. Certainly drones go to DCA's to find queens to mate with but which one and why there are no answers to. There is evidence that queens mate with those drones who can fly highest and fastest so the 'best' genetics in bee terms are passed on.

The reality is that open mated queens are a lottery ... Some DCA locations are known and have been in the same locations for certainly a hundred or more years - and possibly more - but, as far as I know there is no DCA Map of the UK so unless you know where your local ones are and can isolate your queen from them ... you are stuck with local mongrels or the prospect of AI.

The other thing you need to consider is that the queen will mate with anything up to 20 different drones on her mating flight - so that could give rise to a variety of different characteristics passed on through the genes of goodness knows what variety of drones ...

Me - I don't worry about it ... If I have an unduly aggressive colony they will get re-queened by one way or another ... outside of that it's just pot luck I'm afraid.

B+. · May 11, 2017

drex said:
I now cull queens whose colony's show undesirable traits.

This may not be the correct approach.
Lets take the example of one of my pure A.m.c. queens. Suppose I rear a number of daughters and allow them to open mate. The drones, as we know, come from unfertilized eggs so are unaffected by the mating. They are still pure A.m.c. drones. The daughters, are the product of their mother and whichever drone she mated with. If they were island mated or instrumentally inseminated, they are pure A.m.c. If, however, the daughter queens are open mated in this country, they are only 50% A.m.c (probably - depending on what drones the queen mated with). Their behavior could be good, bad, or indifferent.
My point is, its important to know the ancestry of your queens.
If they are of "indeterminate origin", then, almost certainly, your approach is the correct one.

Beefriendly · May 11, 2017

B+. said:
If they were island mated or instrumentally inseminated, they are pure A.m.c. If, however, the daughter queens are open mated in this country, they are only 50% A.m.c (

No, the daughter queens are still 100% A.m.c; their progeny however (the bees in that daughters hive) are only 50% pure. Her drones will still be 100% A.m.c though.

drex · May 11, 2017

I am not a bee breeder, just a hobbyist with mongrels. I prefer gentler bees as they are more pleasant to work with. I know open mating is a lottery, just trying to improve a bit on what I have. I have no control over what others do in my area. It is working as the number of colonies which are not acceptable is gradually improving. My bees are nothing like those on recent video from B+, but I can work them without undue angst

B+. · May 11, 2017

Beefriendly said:
No, the daughter queens are still 100% A.m.c; their progeny however (the bees in that daughters hive) are only 50% pure. Her drones will still be 100% A.m.c though.

Yes. I meant the progeny.

Quis Custodiet · May 11, 2017

drex said:
I am not a bee breeder, just a hobbyist with mongrels. I prefer gentler bees as they are more pleasant to work with. I know open mating is a lottery, just trying to improve a bit on what I have. I have no control over what others do in my area. It is working as the number of colonies which are not acceptable is gradually improving. My bees are nothing like those on recent video from B+, but I can work them without undue angst

Quite a good post and one on which novice beekeepers should reflect.

Swarm · May 11, 2017

Beefriendly said:
No, the daughter queens are still 100% A.m.c; their progeny however (the bees in that daughters hive) are only 50% pure. Her drones will still be 100% A.m.c though.

Use the full quote, he's talking about drone and worker from an open mated queen.

B+. · May 11, 2017

Swarm said:
Use the full quote, he's talking about drone and worker from an open mated queen.

Its ok swarm. I didn't word it very well so I can see it was easy to pick up the wrong end of the stick.

DRone congregation areas

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