Bees clustering under the wire mesh floor

BeeJuice · Oct 16, 2016

I was poking around the hives today and noticed that there were Bees clustering under the wire mesh on one of the hives. The cluster is about 5cms deep and 20-30cms across. Not much activity.. just sitting there.

The hive has a double brood box. Lots of ivy round here. Hive very active. I had reduced the entrance reducer to the smallest entrance but switched to the larger one when I saw loads of bees queueing to get in and out. That was 2 days ago.

Has anyone seen this before. Is it indicative of an issue I can help resolve?

Thanks...

user 6228 · Oct 16, 2016

It happens alot (well it did to us until we did this trick), put a skirt around the front and sides of the stand and then brush the bees off. They will take off and go round

Millet · Oct 16, 2016

derekm said:
It happens alot (well it did to us until we did this trick), put a skirt around the front and sides of the stand and then brush the bees off. They will take off and go round

Or slide the inspection tray home till they stop doing such things.

BeeJuice · Oct 16, 2016

derekm said:
It happens alot (well it did to us until we did this trick), put a skirt around the front and sides of the stand and then brush the bees off. They will take off and go round

Do you think they're trying to get in but can't find the entrance?

For want of a better word · Oct 16, 2016

Perhaps queenie has been roaming around on the floor and left a few of them ferrymoans there and the flying bees could not resist its attractive aroma?

Nos da

Plenty of honey · Oct 16, 2016

BeeJuice said:
I was poking around the hives today and noticed that there were Bees clustering under the wire mesh on one of the hives. The cluster is about 5cms deep and 20-30cms across. Not much activity.. just sitting there.

The hive has a double brood box. Lots of ivy round here. Hive very active. I had reduced the entrance reducer to the smallest entrance but switched to the larger one when I saw loads of bees queueing to get in and out. That was 2 days ago.

Has anyone seen this before. Is it indicative of an issue I can help resolve?

Thanks...

All the above or it's a late mating virgin returned but gone up under the hive and feels she's returned to the nest but she's separated by the wire mesh. I've seen this a few times. If you have a spare base. Remove the current one. Carefully. Rest it on two blocks , them refit the other. Then either knock all bees off the old base, in to the hive or on a suitable tray in front so they can easily walk back up!! You might well have had a late attempt ar supercedure!!

Finman · Oct 17, 2016

.
If there is a virgin, British weathers are not such that queens can do mating flights.

Max temps are now 11-12C. Too far from needed 20C.

Check the brooding of the hive
.
.
.

Erichalfbee · Oct 17, 2016

Plenty of honey said:
If you have a spare base. Remove the current one. Carefully. Rest it on two blocks , them refit the other.

Don't do what my husband did while I was away.
He tipped the hive forward to scrape the bees onto something and being poly the whole lot (a bailey change) slid off.
I don't know how he managed to put everything back but it didn't look as if anything untoward had happened.
He confessed only at the next inspection ...."just in case we didn't have a queen"

Bearhouse · Oct 17, 2016

Finman said:
.
If there is a virgin, British weathers are not such that queens can do mating flights.

Max temps are now 11-12C. Too far from needed 20C.

Check the brooding of the hive
.
.
.

If we had to wait for 20c in UK I think there would be a lot of unmated Queens!! It was 14c here yesterday.

REDWOOD · Oct 17, 2016

BeeJuice said:
I was poking around the hives today and noticed that there were Bees clustering under the wire mesh on one of the hives. The cluster is about 5cms deep and 20-30cms across. Not much activity.. just sitting there.

The hive has a double brood box. Lots of ivy round here. Hive very active. I had reduced the entrance reducer to the smallest entrance but switched to the larger one when I saw loads of bees queueing to get in and out. That was 2 days ago.

Has anyone seen this before. Is it indicative of an issue I can help resolve?

Thanks...

I think you answered your own question, pick up the stray bunch and put them on the landing board

enrico · Oct 17, 2016

They are undershooting the entrance, they can see the hive above them but can't understand why they can't get through the mesh, let's face it they get through a queen excluder ok. So they cluster there. As the nights get colder these bees will die. You can lose many bees this way so block the area between the front entrance and the ground. The bees may already be to weak to fly so may need knocking onto a board and teasing into the entrance
E

Into the lions den · Oct 17, 2016

Millet said:
Or slide the inspection tray home till they stop doing such things.

Not all OMF's for poly hives have inspection trays. None of ours do. Just another thing to lose and fiddly bits to get damaged, especially by mice.

If its enough bees for the OP to worry about, at this time of year just lift the hive aside off its floor, bang the floor down on an upturned roof to shake the bees off, replace the floor where it was, and dump the loose bees back in the top.

Too late in the season to worry about whether there is a VQ there or not.....if there is its 'gubbed'. (Best expression I can think of without sounding twee or using expletives.) You will find out in spring. Just leave them alone queen wise.

Then just do something to stop their little 'go under the floor' game.

Finman · Oct 17, 2016

.
Why not couple of 10 mm holes in the mesh. Anyway the is a entrance hole very near.

.

user 6228 · Oct 17, 2016

Into the lions den said:
Not all OMF's for poly hives have inspection trays. None of ours do. Just another thing to lose and fiddly bits to get damaged, especially by mice.

If its enough bees for the OP to worry about, at this time of year just lift the hive aside off its floor, bang the floor down on an upturned roof to shake the bees off, replace the floor where it was, and dump the loose bees back in the top.

Too late in the season to worry about whether there is a VQ there or not.....if there is its 'gubbed'. (Best expression I can think of without sounding twee or using expletives.) You will find out in spring. Just leave them alone queen wise.

Then just do something to stop their little 'go under the floor' game.

Do yours have a provision for one or is the floor section wall without a tray slot?
The large opening of Varroa tray slot limits the brood chamber temperature in poly hives when the entrance is closed up for winter.

BeeJuice · Oct 17, 2016

Thanks for the suggestions.

It is 14 degrees here today so I just suited up and went out to the bees - I lifted the double brood boxes off the existing floor. I then shook the bees from below and above the mesh onto a new floor. I then put the new floor on the site of the old floor - and then the brood boxes back on the new floor. Lastly I slid in the inspection tray in place to stop them doing the same again.

I've not had a reason to disturb the bees for about 8 weeks and they were not happy about me moving them around. They came out in force!

When I knocked the bees from under the mesh onto the new floor there was no sign of the queen - there was a small tight cluster which she may have been in but I wasn't hanging around to look as the bees definitely wanted me gone.

The whole exercise took about one minute - the bees from under the mesh are now inside the hive. There were a lot of airborne bees and they are now over the front of the hive. I expect it will all have calmed down when I next take a look.

Thanks for all the advice - hopefully I have taken the best course of action.

Into the lions den · Oct 17, 2016

derekm said:
Do yours have a provision for one or is the floor section wall without a tray slot?
The large opening of Varroa tray slot limits the brood chamber temperature in poly hives when the entrance is closed up for winter.

No provision for a tray at all. I will not buy floors that have all manner of 'bits' underneath. They MUST be simple on piece items.

We never close off the mesh and do not close or reduce the entrance in winter either. They have a sufficiently shallow entrance to prevent mice troubles.

Reduced entrances are only needed to protect small colonies from robbing.

We get a set of varroa inserts supplied along with floors early in our poly experimentation. They got binned.

user 6228 · Oct 17, 2016

Into the lions den said:
No provision for a tray at all. I will not buy floors that have all manner of 'bits' underneath. They MUST be simple on piece items.

We never close off the mesh and do not close or reduce the entrance in winter either. They have a sufficiently shallow entrance to prevent mice troubles.

Reduced entrances are only needed to protect small colonies from robbing.

We get a set of varroa inserts supplied along with floors early in our poly experimentation. They got binned.

when I say reduced its about 20 to 10 sq cms as opposed to 30 to 60sq cms
what sort of dimensions are you referring to ?

Into the lions den · Oct 17, 2016

derekm said:
when I say reduced its about 20 to 10 sq cms as opposed to 30 to 60sq cms
what sort of dimensions are you referring to ?

It approx. 45cm2.

We don't find reducing it is ever necessary, and seems kind of pointless when half the floor area is open mesh too. The strength of colonies we normally maintain don't need it for colony defence, and we don't have an issue with the bees being too cold.

From mid Nov until late February inactive is best.

We gave up entrance reducers even on the wooden hives many years ago. They actually made no difference, other than to the tiny colonies under robbing attack.

Reduced entrances do have some useful functions, such as slowing down flight when hiving new packages, and preventing newly made splits from drifting.

BeeJayBee · Oct 17, 2016

Into the lions den said:
We never close off the mesh and do not close or reduce the entrance in winter either. They have a sufficiently shallow entrance to prevent mice troubles.

Are these Swienty Langstroths?

Hebeegeebee · Oct 19, 2016

Into the lions den said:
Too late in the season to worry about whether there is a VQ there or not.....if there is its 'gubbed'. (Best expression I can think of without sounding twee or using expletives.) .

How about giving the virgin queen "a little nip" ... twixt thumb and forefinger

Bees clustering under the wire mesh floor

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