Wood types??

[Tom Bick]

Don’t want to pull you up ITLD but you are partly right. I am well aware of regional description’s of various timbers and totally agree with you that redwood is a term given to Scandinavian and Russian pines it comes in various grades 1 to 5 and unsorted, and the unsorted is the best grade, don’t ask me how but it is.

Whitewood to me is not the sap from redwood but timber from spruce trees you would not get enough sapwood from pines to produce hives from without plenty of gluing. The white wood / spruce is recognisable from its pale colour and the knots are generally grey in colour and as hard as nails. This white spruce bought from general timber yards and builders merchants is not a great durable timber, its also sold as carcassing timber when sawn. Not wanting to totally put down spruce trees as a few of the family are very durable.

On the whole a good quality pine / redwood will last as long as cedar, I am currently overhauling some windows made 100 years ago from quality pine they have not been painted in 20 years and a good bit of timber is exposed but in great condition, it’s the glue and the joints that have failed otherwise they are great.

But the term DEAL is alien to me I don’t know what it is but some strange description to cheep timber from some builders merchants.


Just to add I was typing and distracted when you re-posted

 

[REDWOOD]

found this on the net that answers my nagging thoughts;
are pines redwoods ?
Only very, very distantly. Both are conifers in the order Pinales. But that's as far as the relationship goes. Redwoods (Sequoia sempervirens) are in the cypress family (Cupressaceae) while pines are in the pine family (Pinaceae).

 

[Outlander]

Question for you ITLD I would be interested to know if the cedar boxes from the 30s are they still in service.

 

[Andy Duff]

I read red deal is ideal, find a red deal dealer and get a real deal on red deal.

 

[Into the lions den]

Question for you ITLD I would be interested to know if the cedar boxes from the 30s are they still in service.

Yes. Important to note the qualification 'thought to be from the 30's'. We really do not know how old they are, they may be even older, maybe younger.

We did have some very old deep frames and combs of unusual patterns still in service until the early years of the last decade that Dave Cushman identified as being made 'not later than the 1920s'.

(Yes, BROOD combs that were probably 80 years old! Cells not small either.)

 

[Into the lions den]

But the term DEAL is alien to me I don’t know what it is but some strange description to cheep timber from some builders merchants.

Long time ago I was told, if I recall correctly, that 'deal' is simply a name in the timber trade that was applied to a traded parcel of generic timber. It was sold in a particular unit size, known as 'a deal'. As premium timber fetched a higher price it was pretty well a name reserved for cheap softwoods, and the term morphed into a description of a wood category rather than a particular species.

 

[Outlander]

80 years old that quite amazing.

 

[Into the lions den]

80 years old that quite amazing.

I could not have said myself that they were 80 years old, but the foundation in them was wired in a very odd pattern, and Dave knew exactly what it was and who made it. He put the details on a web page somewhere that seem not to be around on his preserved site now. It was a slightly large BS deep size, as the topbars, side bars, and even the one piece bottom bar, were very thin and the top bar was slotted (not unusual, but add in the whole pattern, and he was able to say where the frames were made ( someplace near london) and the foundation (also SE England). The real thing was the wiring pattern. The wires were quite thick, straight and had verticals and horizontals, rivetted into a metal perimeter looked like brass but was magnetic. It seemed very rigid.

They were eventually destryed in extracting when we made our worst ever error by buying a Thomas Supermel, which was a bee apliance dealers dream, it trashed so many frames and forced me to buy thousands of replacements. £10500 including the stainless steel baskets, and money down the drain.

If they had survived I would probably have sent them off to a museum or given them to science some way, as they were the utter living proof that the cells getting smaller with age is pretty well a myth, repeated so often it became an accepted fact. Midrib was as tough as a cardboard box, just about needed sawing, but cell walls no thicker than far younger combs alongside.

 

[BeeJayBee]

If they had survived I would probably have sent them off to a museum or given them to science some way, as they were the utter living proof that the cells getting smaller with age is pretty well a myth, repeated so often it became an accepted fact. Midrib was as tough as a cardboard box, just about needed sawing, but cell walls no thicker than far younger combs alongside.

So the comb was ancient too?

Is this the page on Dave Cushman's site >> "Wire Grid Reinforced Foundation" >> http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/gridcomb.html

 

[Tom Bick]

Long time ago I was told, if I recall correctly, that 'deal' is simply a name in the timber trade that was applied to a traded parcel of generic timber. It was sold in a particular unit size, known as 'a deal'. As premium timber fetched a higher price it was pretty well a name reserved for cheap softwoods, and the term morphed into a description of a wood category rather than a particular species.

Yes that’s pretty much what I consider the term deal to be, a deal on cheap wood. It seems to me that referring to a timber of deal that is good for hives is a new thing as in 30 years a joiner I have never bought a timber called deal or offered a timber called deal, I have been offered plenty of deals but not a timber called deal.

 

[Into the lions den]

Thats was indeed a version of the document, made before I sent him an example. After that he pinned it down a bit more...............but maybe due to his health it never made it out onto the general site.

 

[alanf]

...in 30 years a joiner I have never bought a timber called deal or offered a timber called deal...

I recall 30 some odd years ago "red deal" being used as a term for pine wood, scots pine in particular. It might have been regional (eastern counties of England) and it might have been an older term then. It was a desciption that older relatives and their generation in building and joinery used. As they are no longer around to ask I can't confirm it and there is unlikely to be much written down unless someone has a box of receipts in the loft.

 

[yeogi75]

deal we used tonnes of the stuff,deal is the name given to pine through to all soft wood box woods etc,you can see tonnes of deal at QB and wicks etc,look along length of wood if it has shakes and twists left and half way down the length twists right again that deal unstable wood,i don't think it is the actual name of a tree species as far as i know

 

[user 6228]

thermal conductance is proportional to wood density

 

[Finman]

.
I made my wooden boxes 45 years ago from scotch pine. They will last more than me.

Our pine forest. Age is probably 100-70 years

 

[Finman]

thermal conductance is proportional to wood density

Yes but in open space anti rotten features are most important, at least here.

Pine has much resins and it protects the wood.

 

[richardbees]

Luminos

I think it's from the Anagram Tree



All of my supers and most bbs are pine and over 20 years old and still 100% useable.

 

[Little John]

Douglas and Larch are not pine trees.

European Larch is a deciduous conifer - reputably a good knot-free wood used in boat-building and for fence posts.
However my experience of the wood is that as the branches radiate from the main trunk at the same height, this leaves a 'collar' of knots which weakens the wood at that point making it highly unsuitable for either of the aforementioned purposes. However, I'm sure there must be a simple explanation for this contradiction.

LJ

 

[Hivemaker.]

European Larch is a deciduous conifer - reputably a good knot-free wood used in boat-building and for fence posts.
LJ

Makes good beehives as well, both european and Japanese,but the latter needs a little more care in milling and drying,especially if kiln drying.
Where the trees grow also make a big difference to the quality of the timber.

 

[REDWOOD]

There was a leaflet on the BBKA about hive paints before they had a new website that discouraged from making hives from larch as the resin contents was so high that preservatives would have a problem sticking to them..... words of that effect anyway,