Winter super configuration. Top or bottom?

[Tomo]

Hi, I have had a good first year honey harvest and have one super still on with 5 frames half capped. I will add some more capped OSR frames for them to over winter on. Should I leave the super on top or move it underneath the BB and why? I assume the bees will naturally move up to food in the cluster?
Thanks.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

What sort of hive are you using?

I use 14 x 12 cedar and today, I've left those unripened frames* for the bees as a nadir (a 'super' under the bb). The bees will take the stores up into the bb and the nadir will be empty - perhaps even before winter starts, who knows? I'll leave it there all winter. I think it raises the frames above the main force of the draughts from the entrance and omf.

If I were running standard national deeps, I'd still do the same - but mainly because the queen excluder would have to be removed but I wouldn't want the queen to start laying in a super next spring.

Dusty.

* just to note that some uncapped frames might still contain honey which can be extracted. You need to spend just a bit on a refractometer.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bees naturally keep their stores above so the natural place for your super would be on top. They might well be brooding in there come spring and you'll have brood and a half unless you do something about it.
If I keep uncapped frames on the hive then I nadir supers early enough so that the bees have time to move the honey into the brood box. I run 14x12 which have ample room for winter stores so I'm happy for all those stores to be in the brood box. In the spring the nadired super is invariably empty.

 

[Davelin]

I move supers under the brood box so they can move the stores up. If you leave it on top make sure you remove the Q Ex or you may isolate the queen.

If it is OSR in the super it may well have set by now which means if you put it under it may not get moved up.

 

[Tomo]

I have a commercial BB and national supers. I was hoping they would use the hard OSR over the winter so that I don't waste the drawn comb. I haven't put the OSR frames into the super yet. Not sure how to go about this? Should I scrape the cappings and spray water onto the OSR?
With regard to extracting the uncapped honey: my feeling is that I have had alot of honey from them this year already, so thought I could leave a super to save me feeding if possible.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I run brood and a half nationals (I know that is a practice scorned by some on here - but it works for me). I put the half brood underneath over winter for the reasons given by Dusty.

 

[whoosling]

I run brood and a half nationals (I know that is a practice scorned by some on here - but it works for me). I put the half brood underneath over winter for the reasons given by Dusty.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

I think erihalfbee has it covered.
Late in the season its better to put stores above it gives the bees less to do moving stores around
Putting supers under is a good way to get them empty for next season but the weather can change this late on in the year.
Depends where you are though

 

[Pips]

Would anyone mind explaining what nadiring is?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Putting a 'super' under the brood box rather than on top.
"Nadir" meaning "under" just as "super" means "above".

Many of us put a half filled 'super' under the bb at this time of year. The bees take the stores up into the bb ready for the winter or, if full, will treat it as the lower part of the winter colony.

Those who leave a super of stores on top of the bb may run into a problem early next season as the queen will move up unto the super and start laying.
(Remember that if you leave a super of stores above a bb for the winter, the queen excluder must be removed to avoid the bees either abandoning the queen below the QE or staying with her and starving.)

Dusty

P.s. "Nadir" is the on-trend word this autumn. Those who don't use it, probably use matchsticks under the crownboard to 'improve' air circulation and 'prevent condensation' over winter. You must use 'nadir' to prove you are not a newbie. It's the rule.

 

[rolande]

Hi, I have had a good first year honey harvest and have one super still on with 5 frames half capped. I will add some more capped OSR frames for them to over winter on. Should I leave the super on top or move it underneath the BB and why? I assume the bees will naturally move up to food in the cluster?
Thanks.

To answer that you need to look at your brood box and decide whether you actually want more honey in it at the present time, or whether it's best where it is, above the nest. Remembering the bees need brooding and resting space as well as stores. There's a good description of reading the combs in relation to feeding in this version of Michael Palmers Sustainable Apiary lecture (@22min).

 

[Melbee]

Fascinating Dusty! Before I 'nadir' the super (doesn't it work well as a verb!), do I need to have completed winter feeding ?

Oh the fun we have...
Thanks

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Depends on your gear and what you do with it.

I run 14 x 12 BBs so all I'm aiming to do is give back to the bees, the stuff I can't/don't want to extract, and make sure the bb is full.

If you're on standard deep BBs and have a standard shallow ('super') with stores in, I would put it under and feed simultaneously. As long as they build up as much as they can, leaving HM enough space to produce winter bees.

Bees do seem to think they know better than us, what they need! My view is that if it goes ok, I've done a good job. If they don't, they've got it wrong!

Hope you have a successful over-wintering!

Dusty

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you're on standard deep BBs and have a standard shallow ('super') with stores in, I would put it under and feed simultaneously. As long as they build up as much as they can, leaving HM enough space to produce winter bees.

Dusty

That's what i do - although not started feeding yet - bees still piling in the balsam at some apiaries

 

[Pete D]

The configuration of my supers for the winter is that they are all in stacks of 10 in the shed sealed top and bottom with crown boards after having sulphur treatment for wax moth.
I don't leave any on the hives, if the std nationals run low on stores that get a lump of fondant straight on top of the cluster. The 14x12 rarely need the fondant.

 

[REDWOOD]

+1

 

[Pips]

thanks very much dusty. Have the 'leader' of my local BBKA coming tomorrow to look at the hives so am going to try and impress her by using 'nadiring'!

 

[Melbee]

Very helpful. Thanks . I wish everyone a successful winter after all the chat and preparation.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

thanks very much dusty. Have the 'leader' of my local BBKA coming tomorrow to look at the hives so am going to try and impress her by using 'nadiring'!

Well, Pips, how did it go?

I expect you passed with flying colours. (Mainly yellow and black!)

Dusty