Winter on brood and half

[Mickyboy]

Hi all

As the title says I wintered my bees on a brood and half withe the super on the bottom . Is it time now to swap them around and put on queen excluder making sure she's in the brood box or should I leave it a little longer

Thx

 

[wessexmario]

probably still a bit early, I'd leave the QX off for a while longer.
If it gets cold again then there's two risks from having a QX on this early
- the cluster could move above the QX to get stores or warmth leaving the queen isolated and cold.
- or they could stay with her, but then starve out of reach of stores above them.

Patience is the beekeeper's best quality at this time of year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would wait till you do your first inspection then make a decision depending on what you find.

 

[Mickyboy]

I would wait till you do your first inspection then make a decision depending on what you find.

I was thinking about doing the inspection tomorrow if the weather permits ,I didn't want the queen to start Laying in the supper

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you expecting a significant nectar flow? OSR?
The general rule of thumb is to super when you have 6/7 frames of brood. Then the colony is strong and can deal with the headspace above.
I have nadired shallows to come off but they will come off entirely. I'll put them back when the above conditions are fulfilled

 

[snelgrove]

to early for excluders, wait until April before inspecting frames. more harm than good by being impatient

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I was thinking about doing the inspection tomorrow

Why? wait until spring.

 

[Mickyboy]

Why? wait until spring.

Ok thx I will wait until April , my only concern was I didn't want the queen to start laying in the super instead of the brood

Or should I leave them on a brood and half all season ?
Thx

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Can you clarify your concern? It might help you think it through.

I imagine you don't want the queen to lay in the super because then the super is compromised for collecting honey. But there is nothing to stop you finding the queen, ensuring she's in the bb, putting a queen excluder in, waiting 3 weeks then removing the super and changing any frames affected. Not exactly expensive to do that.

Many people see the national as being too small for any decent colony, so go breed and a half or double brood anyway. You're already there!
(Personally, I decided to go 14 x 12, to sold all the faffing around that requires.)

This is far too early to go messing around in the bees - apart from ensuring they're OK for stores, by hefting or a quick visual from the top. You will, of course, have already put in a varroa board to do a quick mite drop check - and the evidence on the boar will show you where the brood is anyway.

Time solves many things in beekeeping. Beekeeper's anxiety is the cause of many of the problems we face.


Dusty

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok thx I will wait until April , my only concern was I didn't want the queen to start laying in the super instead of the brood

Or should I leave them on a brood and half all season ?
Thx

Just wait until we get consistently warmer weather and the bees are a lot more active - at that point you don't even need to open up and inspect - just l lift the brood box off (that will also give you an idea of weight) and take the shallow away. You can from that have a rough assesment of the colony strength. You can then at your leisure do a quick inspection of the brood box, and when they are ready to move up replace the QX and super.

 

[snelgrove]

You have to take things as the weather permits. No two seasons are the same, no two springs are the same.
Many books advise using the flowering current as a guide, when it flowers it's time to inspect, well it's flowering here now and it's way to early. April is the time after a period of warmer weather

 

[bjosephd]

wait until April before inspecting frames. more harm than good by being impatient

Thanks for that clear statement snelgrove.

I've been away some weeks and back in 10 days and was wondering how much of an inspection I should do on my return... especially as I am then away again for another fortnight ish until early/mid April.

My worry would be that I don't take enough action in 10 days time that by April on my return all sorts of carnage or even swarming has happened!

Assuming they are still alive when in 10 days (updated that they were busy flying this morning) I return, I'm guessing I do no more than take a look in the top, see how many frames they appear to be covering, put some fondant on them again to cover all dangers of my absence and check them again when I get back in 20 days time. I wonder if hunger has been the great killer this winter into spring?

I'm mostly worried of starvation over the next 10 days before I return... and then potential rapid expansion during my absence for the following fortnight leading to space issues.

BJD

 

[BeeBo]

I have nadired shallows to come off but they will come off entirely. I'll put them back when the above conditions are fulfilled

When do you intend to take them off?
Is there a danger of taking stores away too soon?
Will you take them off even if they contain eggs/ brood?
Why wouldn't they contain eggs/ brood if there is a laying queen in there?
Just trying to understand the rationale.
Thank you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

When do you intend to take them off?
Is there a danger of taking stores away too soon?
Will you take them off even if they contain eggs/ brood?
Why wouldn't they contain eggs/ brood if there is a laying queen in there?
Just trying to understand the rationale.
Thank you.

Soon, last year they were taken off around now
They will be empty. I would hazard that they have been empty for some months. I run 14x12 which is a big box but it might be different with a National and a prolific bee. Obviously if there is brood there you have to leave it on.
The bees will be in the warmest part of the hive, the top, which is where the brood will be.

I had to dismantle a failed colony yesterday. Although the brood box had ample stores the nadired shallow was empty. The bees don't like honey below them so when you add that box underneath in the autumn they move the honey to the brood box.
I don't do it with all of them. Just if I have unusable honey.

 

[BeeBo]

Thanks Erica. Very clear answer and very helpful. I thought I should take it away but was worried about taking their stores as I managed to let a hive starve last year and it was a very dispiriting sight. I don't ever want to do that again.
Julie

 

[Arfermo]

Ok thx I will wait until April , my only concern was I didn't want the queen to start laying in the super instead of the brood

If the bees become crowded later on, having the brood and a half will give them space they will need to lessen the likelihood of uncontrolled swarming. My National are all on doubles or one-and-a-half all year so what is your problem?

Or should I leave them on a brood and half all season ?
Thx

Yes until you can see more clearly what they are likely to do when they have actually built-up and the flow is beginning.

 

[Mickyboy]

Just wait until we get consistently warmer weather and the bees are a lot more active - at that point you don't even need to open up and inspect - just l lift the brood box off (that will also give you an idea of weight) and take the shallow away. You can from that have a rough assesment of the colony strength. You can then at your leisure do a quick inspection of the brood box, and when they are ready to move up replace the QX and super.

Thank you , will do that

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, what I do is slide the hive over and put a new floor where it used to be. Take the brood box off the shallow underneath it and pop it onto the new floor.
Take the shallow and old floor away

 

[Poly Hive]

On the basis of the only daft Q is the unasked one there goes.

Define clearly please nadired ?

I googled and got chemo??

If you mean an eke then it is an eke.

PH

 

[Fatbee]

Shallow box underneath the brood box