Why put supers on top?

[lebouche]

Hi,
I was just wondering, if heat rises why do bees move the honey to the top of the nest rather than brood which needs to be kept warm? If it could overheat in the summer surely they could move it down?
Also why don't we always just move supers underneath and in this way keep the hive warm? I guess it is because they always move stores upwards…?

 

[REDWOOD]

Where would you rather sleep in the summer, upstairs or downstairs

 

[Tom Bick]

Some people do place the supers under the broods. I think the general way to do it is to block off the entrance at the mesh floor and then create an entrance just above the queen excluder but I don't see why it would not work with a bottom and top entrance during busy times. I have been saying for a few years now I am going to give it a go but never quite getting round to it.

Place three supers under the broods at the start of the season and then no lifting of supers to inspect the brood sounds ever so simple but somehow I think there must be more to it and the only way to find out is give it a try.

 

[tidymeup]

It's more the way the bees do it, they have a nice arc of stores around the top of the frame that extends upwards, I don't see the same on the. Bottom of the frame.

 

[Tom Bick]

The test would be a stack of boxes and run a swarm in and watch them over a full season. I would think that in a wild situation the bees would move the brood nest within the confines of the space they have to work with to best meet their needs.

 

[Pete D]

In the recent tree nest that I removed when it blew down in the gales the brood was at least half way, maybe 2/3rds down the length of comb seen in the pictures on the 'victims of the storm' thread.
It was their choice where they raised brood and stored honey. Honey near the top, not right at top and some at the back of the combs half way up so near the brood.

Brood on top the QE, supers underneath..............swarm control ?
How would the drones get out without a top entrance.

 

[moo]

If you did run a swarm into a stack of boxes I suspect you would see them start their broodnest right in the top box and it would gradually expand downward and at the same time honey would be placed above in the vacated cells, thus why we super.
Some like to nadir, but that is just to allow the broodnest to continue downward so as to free up more storage space above for honey.
You can also put extra boxes in the middle of your configuration.. but that's another story

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[Erichalfbee]

Brood on top the QE, supers underneath..............swarm control ?
How would the drones get out without a top entrance.

The entrance is above the excluder.

 

[Tom Bick]

Pete you have to create an entrance over the queen excluder. As I understand it you block the entrance at the floor but no reason a small one can exist if a big flow is on.

Moo I agree and easy for the bees to move up as they consume the stores.

 

[user 6228]

Hi,
I was just wondering, if heat rises why do bees move the honey to the top of the nest rather than brood which needs to be kept warm? If it could overheat in the summer surely they could move it down?
Also why don't we always just move supers underneath and in this way keep the hive warm? I guess it is because they always move stores upwards…?

Its really a very clever solution to the thermal problems honeybee colonies have to solve in summer and winter.
The more I research into this, the more I am impressed with the solution

 

[oliver90owner]

This poster doesn't think much or for long.

There was a comment from him recently which about sums up the incredulity of this thread.

Question: Would you put your food where it is going to get showered with all detritus descending from above? Get real and actually think about things sensibly.

With regard to thermal consideration: Would you leave your winter supplies where they could be frozen (and so inaccessible) or above, where the thermal energy provided to keep the cluster warm will initially end up?

Bees clearly look a little further ahead than the OP!

 

[MJBee]

With the Warre hive all the boxes are the same size and when the bees have half filled a box another is added underneath, up to 4 boxes.

I made a Warre hive in 2012 for someone but before I could deliver it a swarm moved in It produced a massive swarm last year - clustered 5 yards away about 3ft off the ground - how kind. They have had Apiguard and OA each autumn and winter but no other interference and are now filling 2 and a half boxes and thriving

 

[Erichalfbee]

When you harvest where is the honey?

 

[oliver90owner]

You add boxes one at a time? A glutton for punishment, MJ, if they were to fill several boxes!! Especially for those with umpteen of that type!!

And you are, of course, adding a brood box, not a super (from the latin for 'above'?).

RAB

 

[Dishmop]

Surely any bee book will explain why bees put the food up top.

Imagine a wild colony. No frames. If the food was all at the bottom would the comb be able to mangage the weight of the honey.

 

[nikca]

And the massive swarm made me 20+kg of honey even though it was July IIRC. Thanks Mike!

They are doing well in their national - but they are sods!

 

[drstitson]

as per o2o.

1. bees naturally build comb downwards.
2. brood area will get abandoned in winter as bees move up to stores.

 

[victor meldrew]

Bees store honey above the brood ergo ,stick the supers above the brood box !


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[Gilberdyke John]

Hi,
I was just wondering, if heat rises why do bees move the honey to the top of the nest rather than brood which needs to be kept warm? If it could overheat in the summer surely they could move it down?
Also why don't we always just move supers underneath and in this way keep the hive warm? I guess it is because they always move stores upwards…?

Better find a different name for the box(es) below the brood then. How about infers (from inferior) or unders if you like. Whether your bees play ball is up to them.

 

[beeno]

Hi all,
I seem to recall that someone on this forum explained that in inventing the 'commercial' beehive the 'honey box' was placed above the brood box because the bees did not like empty space above them. The QE prevents the brood nest from being moved up. Sounds plausible to me, but it could be a load of tish.