Why do people use large beehives like national?

[john1]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

 

[Apiarisnt]

This answers your questions. Variations on a Beehive, Nelson | Northern Bee Books

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

Not really - most would argue the opposite

 

[Boston Bees]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

This is a good comparison site for you

National 14x12 - East Devon Beekeepers (eastdevonbk.co.uk)

As you will see, National is one of the smaller box sizes.

If you are concerned about warmth, use poly rather than wood.

But I agree that bees probably want something narrower and taller than a national box, to allow them to fill it side to side in winter. The trouble is that this doesn't really suit beekeepers, who don't want their stacks getting unmanageable tall. If you want a bit of fun you could experiment with "nuc stacks" like this one that uses Abelo 6 frame nuc boxes (you can do the same with Maisemore nuc extensions).

 

[user 819]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

Smaller boxes/broods are referred to as nuc's when half size and these are likely those which you refer to.

 

[Murox]

Like Boston bees I think bees would prefer something narrower and taller than the boxes many use. I experimented with a narrower taller long hive style, (think dadant brood stood on end); bees do well over winter as they can simply move up without a break in the frames. Of course long hive styles tend not to give as much honey but they do make large colonies and avoid the lifting of supers.

 

[enrico]

I think you are talking about poly nucs. They are not used as full sized hives. You need a brood box that will accommodate the amount of eggs that a queen can lay in the three weeks before the corresponding amount of bees die off. The national hive is slightly too small for this which is why many people use the slightly deeper version. If the space is too small for the queen to lay her eggs the likelihood is that they will swarm. That is the main reason that we use the sizes we do use although the national is accepted now as being too small.

 

[Anduril]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

Have you been looking at Apis Cerana the Eastern Honeybee? These are in smaller boxes and not as prolific as the Western Honeybee.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

I agree with some of what you are saying, and I try to overwinter in poly nucs (6 National frames) wherever possible. A good colony will expand by a ridiculous multiple if properly managed in spring. (It's a bit advanced, but what I try to do is put on a second box for 12 frames and a pre-made Demaree at the next-large-expansion). But if you have a UK colony that is in a nuc, or indeed is not filling a National box, by "late early spring" (date will depend on location: for you I am guessing late April), get help because it has an issue.

 

[oliver90owner]

I think you are talking about poly nucs. They are not used as full sized hives. You need a brood box that will accommodate the amount of eggs that a queen can lay in the three weeks before the corresponding amount of bees die off. The national hive is slightly too small for this which is why many people use the slightly deeper version. If the space is too small for the queen to lay her eggs the likelihood is that they will swarm. That is the main reason that we use the sizes we do use although the national is accepted now as being too small.

Actually, you need a box big enough, with sufficient cells, to accommodate the number of eggs, larvae and pupae in the brood cell cycle of about 25-28(?) days (depending on how many drones are being raised). If insufficient space, they may well swarm. A honey arch (above/around the nest) is also generally accommodated within the brood box.

Likewise, before winter, there needs to be space for stores and the cluster. That makes a deep National brood about right for many colonies. I always have plenty of stores in a single Standard National extra-deep brood box for over-wintering. Many with deeps find they need to feed in early spring expansion, particularly if a cold spell makes nectar collection difficult.

Hence a deep Standard National is considered ‘about right’ by many. Certainly not too big - most other formats, apart from Warre, are larger than presented in the British Standard of years gone by.

Question - Do single-size box hives, based on The BS National footprint (Rose hives) usually go through winter on one box or two?

 

[Finman]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

Here in Finland large beehives do better in winter than small ones.

6 frame nucs are better to put into a cellar ,where temp is +4C.

To get a hive alive over winter is not a miracle. More important is to have a big hive in spring that the colony can build up quickly and is able to harvest crop.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

deep National brood about right for many colonies.

I always have plenty of stores in a single Standard National extra-deep brood box for over-wintering.

Many with deeps find they need to feed in early spring expansion,

deep Standard National is considered ‘about right’ by many.

Sorry RAB: confused. I see "extra-deep" in there once but is it implicitly in other places?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

standard brood box - deep
14x12" - either extra deep or Jumbo

 

[enrico]

Thanks RAB, I was trying not to get too technical but as always you explained it far better than me!

 

[drex]

In answer to RAB's question I always take my standard deep Nationals through winter as doubles. I have no problem with having to feed in winter and only very occasionally in the spring boom.

 

[Boston Bees]

In answer to RAB's question I always take my standard deep Nationals through winter as doubles. I have no problem with having to feed in winter and only very occasionally in the spring boom.

He was asking about OSB (Rose) hives. The answer is that at least two OSB boxes would go through winter, or at least I wouldn't try to take one through -

Having said that I guess one box is equivalent to a 6 frame nuc so in theory you could just use one box, but it would be an uncomfortably flat, shallow winter brood nest for the bees.

 

[drex]

Sorry my mistake. Read it too fast

 

[gmonag]

He was asking about OSB (Rose) hives. The answer is that at least two OSB boxes would go through winter, or at least I wouldn't try to take one through -

Having said that I guess one box is equivalent to a 6 frame nuc so in theory you could just use one box, but it would be an uncomfortably flat, shallow winter brood nest for the bees.

Mine usually over-winter in two boxes. The upper box will contain mostly honey, the lower will be mostly brood.

 

[Worker bee]

I am using National bee hive. They are large bee hives.

I have seen in some places (not in the UK) people using small brood and super boxes (may half of the size of a national hive).

I think if the boxes are small, it will easier for the bees to survive in winter.
Small brood box will be warmer than large brood box in winter.

Polly nucs are better to overwinter stacked up than a wood national but then I've got bees in wooden national hives to survive winter with just five frames of bees that ended up with just two frames by spring. Feeding fondant helps

 

[REDWOOD]

Tried poly and wood 14X12 and no different in anyway regarding overwintering, build up and honey production