Which type of bees?

[Antipodes]

Well, not the Hebrides, but a South Australian island with special bee laws.

https://pir.sa.gov.au/biosecurity/animal_health/bees/moving_bees_and_bee_products

 

[Antipodes]

The world's oldest bee sanctuary

https://amazingbees.com.au/australian-bee-sanctuary.html

 

[RichardBeeW]

BIBBAs National Bee Improvement webinars are very interesting. Webinars – BIBBA

HiLevitt53 our broadband (BT - the only fibre optic in the area so can hardly change to someone else ) has been down over 2 weeks now so unable to watch. Do you know if they record them for later ‘catchup’? I am a member of BIBBA so should really be asking them - gutted I’m missing them though

 

[Murox]

Pray... tell us more

The home of Ligurian bees

 

[BugsInABox]

There never will be a PURE so called "Buckfast" bee... and anyone thinking that way must be in Cloud cuckoo land!

Yeghes da

Well never say never. If you got a few colonies of similar buckfast mongrels then line bred them for a few seasons you could. Whether they would then be Buckfast we can debated, but perhaps it's accademic if they show the same traits as a Buckfast. Nigel above suggests it's been done.

 

[Ian123]

It would be interesting to see some evidence of that assertion, other than anecdotal.

Fair enough but if you check the larger queen rearing set ups world wide you will see open mated queens f1/first cross as the main stay of the production queens they produce. Isolated/island mated are a premium and as many state are suitable for the production of f1/first cross. See the link and description I posted above and type 2 queens

 

[Ian123]

NO... that is a totally wrong assumption when linked to rearing honeybees, which I may point out are social insects....
To ensure a pure breeding line one would need an isolated community.... such as on a remote Hebridean island, or use Instrumental Insemination from a captive colony ( ie not free flying)producing drones.

There never will be a PURE so called "Buckfast" bee... and anyone thinking that way must be in Cloud cuckoo land!

Yeghes da

Yes I agree pure is the wrong word but they are line bred to form a stable bee same effect as those of a pure race/strain?

 

[Ian123]

Beekeeping business based on Exmoor dedicated entirely to bees, bee keeping and Buckfast Superbee Queens - Buckfast Bees Here’s our own Hive Makers description I would suggest there are few better informed than him! I notice he uses the term f1 for his production or open mated queens

 

[ForageFlight]

Why would one chose Buckfast bees over Carniolan bees? I’m in eastern Scotland.

If I was you I would go for natives AMM or local bees. COLOSS a resurch oranisation have proven that local bee survives and gathers the most honey over the years. They live longer up to a third longer more frugal with their stores. I had some Buckfast bees in 60 or the 70 is and I had to feed them in July because they were so prolific they had eaten through their supers and were starving. Importers of Queen bees are imorting some 10,000 Queens per year and they still havent taken over the county because they simply will not survive. Beekeepers are funny lot they believe they grass is allways greener on the other side. In the mean time we have nearly maniged to destroyed our native under some ulussion of the grass been greener on the other side. The bee that will chase you all the way to the car are usully Italian mongrals. The Native bee needs to be culled quite drasticly. If you are buying in queens and localy and you are varroa treatment free person. If your buy from a treatment supplyer of Queens the virruses will resurface because of your none treatment. As queens mate with up 20 and more drones keeping the bees from becoing aggresive is the art by culling and you will get more honey for the imput your doing. Good Luck.

Why would one chose Buckfast bees over Carniolan bees? I’m in eastern Scotland.

 

[madasafish]

May I suggest that extrapolations are also not helpful?
2 Qs and some locals, doesn't mean all black bees are nasty either.

I made no extrapolations.. just stated some historical facts..

People can choose what bees they like.. And I really don't care as long as they are situated more than 3 miles away from my bees.

When they start preaching at me how evil I am for making the choices I have made (whatever and whyever done) I react as most people do...

 

[madasafish]

If I was you I would go for natives AMM or local bees. COLOSS a resurch oranisation have proven that local bee survives and gathers the most honey over the years. They live longer up to a third longer more frugal with their stores. I had some Buckfast bees in 60 or the 70 is and I had to feed them in July because they were so prolific they had eaten through their supers and were starving. Importers of Queen bees are imorting some 10,000 Queens per year and they still havent taken over the county because they simply will not survive. Beekeepers are funny lot they believe they grass is allways greener on the other side. In the mean time we have nearly maniged to destroyed our native under some ulussion of the grass been greener on the other side. The bee that will chase you all the way to the car are usully Italian mongrals. The Native bee needs to be culled quite drasticly. If you are buying in queens and localy and you are varroa treatment free person. If your buy from a treatment supplyer of Queens the virruses will resurface because of your none treatment. As queens mate with up 20 and more drones keeping the bees from becoing aggresive is the art by culling and you will get more honey for the imput your doing. Good Luck.

I am unfamiliar with the " more honey" research. Could you please provide a link please..
Thanks

 

[Ian123]

I made no extrapolations.. just stated some historical facts..

People can choose what bees they like.. And I really don't care as long as they are situated more than 3 miles away from my bees.

When they start preaching at me how evil I am for making the choices I have made (whatever and whyever done) I react as most people do...

I am unfamiliar with the " more honey" research. Could you please provide a link please..
Thanks

. I guess they could go tell Murray he’s been doing it all wrong as well

 

[Swarm]

HiLevitt53 our broadband (BT - the only fibre optic in the area so can hardly change to someone else ) has been down over 2 weeks now so unable to watch. Do you know if they record them for later ‘catchup’? I am a member of BIBBA so should really be asking them - gutted I’m missing them though

They are recorded.

 

[Erichalfbee]

HiLevitt53 our broadband (BT - the only fibre optic in the area so can hardly change to someone else ) has been down over 2 weeks now so unable to watch. Do you know if they record them for later ‘catchup’? I am a member of BIBBA so should really be asking them - gutted I’m missing them though

Have you 4G?

 

[Swarm]

I made no extrapolations.. just stated some historical facts..

I remember you accusing the Colonsay Queens bought by your association as being terrible at dealing with varroa as well, so much so they were shoved out of the way somewhere (IIRC?)
I did comment at the time that Colonsay bees are free from varroa and have never seen it. It was a particularly ill conceived idea in the first place, like going back to the early nineties.
I've seen Andrew Abrahams inspecting his bees, nice and gentle they are and mine are nearly as good.

 

[Apple]

I made no extrapolations.. just stated some historical facts..

People can choose what bees they like.. And I really don't care as long as they are situated more than 3 miles away from my bees.

When they start preaching at me how evil I am for making the choices I have made (whatever and whyever done) I react as most people do...

Personally my preference would be 50 miles... and that would go for people as well during these difficult ill informed and leaderless days!!!

Chons da

 

[madasafish]

. I guess they could go tell Murray he’s been doing it all wrong as well

Strange that.. Murray must be lucky

I keep non AMM non Black bees. And my honey yields per hive appear - only speaking locally - to be as high if not higher than most locals - who keep local bees..

I must be lucky as well

 

[madasafish]

I remember you accusing the Colonsay Queens bought by your association as being terrible at dealing with varroa as well, so much so they were shoved out of the way somewhere (IIRC?)
I did comment at the time that Colonsay bees are free from varroa and have never seen it. It was a particularly ill conceived idea in the first place, like going back to the early nineties.
I've seen Andrew Abrahams inspecting his bees, nice and gentle they are and mine are nearly as good.

You have a good memory and are correct.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Personally my preference would be 50 miles

According to the research that is too far to move bees for them be local/locally adapted or have resistance to local strains of diseases in a lot of areas in the UK especially Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Devon. Maybe acceptable in middle England where it's more open and flat with very similar landscape but still exceptions there.
There is no real definition of local/locally adapted bees it's very open to interpretation and hugely different dependent on landscape. Even Mr Carreck cannot answer that question. It could be the next valley or it could be the next county.

Since most of the bees called local have their roots in imports anyway the argument is somewhat irrelevant.
AMM are imported in high numbers and have been for many years, most are bred from those imports or have been.
Even Ireland imported large numbers of AMM during the early 1900's mainly Dutch and still imports AMM queens now from Europe.
If there were records for the type of bee imported as part of the numbers AMM would probably be the third on that list behind Carniolan and Buckfast.

How can a bee that has to be kulled into a manageable state be ideal for a beginner or someone with only a couple of hives ?

 

[Apple]

According to the research that is too far to move bees for them be local/locally adapted or have resistance to local strains of diseases in a lot of areas in the UK especially Wales, Scotland, Cornwall and Devon. Maybe acceptable in middle England where it's more open and flat with very similar landscape but still exceptions there.
There is no real definition of local/locally adapted bees it's very open to interpretation and hugely different dependent on landscape. Even Mr Carreck cannot answer that question. It could be the next valley or it could be the next county.

Since most of the bees called local have their roots in imports anyway the argument is somewhat irrelevant.
AMM are imported in high numbers and have been for many years, most are bred from those imports or have been.
Even Ireland imported large numbers of AMM during the early 1900's mainly Dutch and still imports AMM queens now from Europe.
If there were records for the type of bee imported as part of the numbers AMM would probably be the third on that list behind Carniolan and Buckfast.

How can a bee that has to be kulled into a manageable state be ideal for a beginner or someone with only a couple of hives ?

Cornish variant of the endemic population of native Amm when their DNA was analysed showed that they were specific to a number of different and isolated areas. Showing that the populations had not mixed and that importation of Amm from other areas of the UK and Europe had not happened. Research carried out at University of Plymouth by Dr Jon Ellis, but possibly not published as yet.

Imported queen bees into the UK represent about 5% of the total number of colonies in the UK, the%numbers of colonies headed up by a newly imported queen reduce dramatically if one considers that about only two thirds will survive introduction. What numbers of Amm are imported, and where is this information published?
Even Mr Carreck cannot answer that question

Chons da