Where did i go wrong?

[drex]

Bitterly disappointed. Just checked the take on my queen rearing and it is 0 out of 20.
I was very confident as for the first time I used a big illuminated magnifier, so was confident about larval transfer.
I used Dave Cushmans Cloake board method. Setting up on day 1 putting unsealed brood in top box ( seemed counterintuitive). Day 8 grafting destroying any emergency cells ( confident I got them all). Tomorrow is the day I would expect grafts to be sealed. Today all I found were about 5 sealed emergency cells. I wonder if these were just at the stage of larvae being floated out, but cells not extended, when I destroyed the rest . No time to explore further today. Will look at both boxes tomorrow and might cut out emergency QC's and use those, as I really like this queen. Thoughts please

 

[Ian123]

It’s always worth checking grafts a day or 2 after in order to rectify poor takes. You’ve obviously got the queenless part correct as they are drawing cells. I had very poor takes a week or so ago but the last couple of frames i did yesterday look like at least 20 on each frame. What are you grafting into how long did you take, I try my utmost to take the puddle of brood food the grub is sitting on. That sometimes means not the very smallest larvae! Bees themselves can be contrary. If they have their own larvae they may not like the ones you offer. Try again!

 

[drex]

Grafting into new cup kit cups. The larvae were their own from the bottom box. Due to the novelty of my magnifying loupe I was able to go for larvae smaller than I have used previously. They were a bit dry when they went in the cups, perhaps that was it. I kept them moist under a damp towel. They were fed well, so had a fair bit of bee milk in the cells They came out of

 

[elainemary]

Bitterly disappointed. Just checked the take on my queen rearing and it is 0 out of 20.
I was very confident as for the first time I used a big illuminated magnifier, so was confident about larval transfer.
I used Dave Cushmans Cloake board method. Setting up on day 1 putting unsealed brood in top box ( seemed counterintuitive). Day 8 grafting destroying any emergency cells ( confident I got them all). Tomorrow is the day I would expect grafts to be sealed. Today all I found were about 5 sealed emergency cells. I wonder if these were just at the stage of larvae being floated out, but cells not extended, when I destroyed the rest . No time to explore further today. Will look at both boxes tomorrow and might cut out emergency QC's and use those, as I really like this queen. Thoughts please

understand it has to be older unsealed brood that’s brought up to attract nurse bees next to the grafts - sounds you might have missed a few younger larva and why they made emergency cells in preference to those you chose. Cloakboard is a good technique. Just have to keep going & try again. You’ll succeed if you can be resilient to set backs.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Did you put the empty new cups in the hive to be conditioned by the bees before grafting into them?

 

[jeff33]

This is why I never leave open brood in the grafting box as they will make EQcs from these and don't touch the grafts. How long b4 grafting did you close the cloakboard?

 

[jeff33]

Did you put the empty new cups in the hive to be conditioned by the bees before grafting into them?

I have never done this and never had a problem with takes.

 

[Amari]

Bitterly disappointed. Just checked the take on my queen rearing and it is 0 out of 20.
I was very confident as for the first time I used a big illuminated magnifier, so was confident about larval transfer.
I used Dave Cushmans Cloake board method. Setting up on day 1 putting unsealed brood in top box ( seemed counterintuitive). Day 8 grafting destroying any emergency cells ( confident I got them all). Tomorrow is the day I would expect grafts to be sealed. Today all I found were about 5 sealed emergency cells. I wonder if these were just at the stage of larvae being floated out, but cells not extended, when I destroyed the rest . No time to explore further today. Will look at both boxes tomorrow and might cut out emergency QC's and use those, as I really like this queen. Thoughts please

That's a shame Drex. I remember when we first met more than a decade ago, when I had been keeping bees for 40 years, you were a relative beginner but you recommended this Forum to me - and I've learnt so much! Nil desperandum!

 

[drex]

Thank you all. Cups were conditioned and slide put in 24 hours before grafts.
I followed Dave Cushmans instructions to the letter.
Bees will be bees. Will try again later today

 

[jeff33]

Make sure it is full of bees. I usually get a similar setup but as well as 6 frames of emerging brood which were added a week before, I will shake on grafting day another 5-6 frames of bees, usually 2h before grafting which is also when I slide the cover. They workout within 15min they are queenless. I re-open 24h after. Good luck

 

[drex]

After the encouragement on here, I did a second round of grafting today. I used half conditioned cups and half new. Used the same colony. There were plenty of bees, but I used a bit of a Ben Harden method with fat dummies to concentrate the bees. Only sealed brood left in top box, so no risk of emergency cells. I will report back in a couple of days

 

[madasafish]

I have found if my first grafts are poor eg 2 out of 10, then I regraft the same day I find out - and the results are much better, eg 5 to 6 out of 10. Whether it's my muscle memory getting better or the bees more used to the idea of being Q- and raising QCs I don't know It's happened twice so far this year.
Cloake Board system .

 

[Belgianbeekeeper]

Bitterly disappointed. Just checked the take on my queen rearing and it is 0 out of 20.
I was very confident as for the first time I used a big illuminated magnifier, so was confident about larval transfer.
I used Dave Cushmans Cloake board method. Setting up on day 1 putting unsealed brood in top box ( seemed counterintuitive). Day 8 grafting destroying any emergency cells ( confident I got them all). Tomorrow is the day I would expect grafts to be sealed. Today all I found were about 5 sealed emergency cells. I wonder if these were just at the stage of larvae being floated out, but cells not extended, when I destroyed the rest . No time to explore further today. Will look at both boxes tomorrow and might cut out emergency QC's and use those, as I really like this queen. Thoughts please

Ok,for starters,i've been reading all reactions on your post,but since i'm flemish,lot of the therms and methodes used are like chinese to me;Anyway,i describe as good and bad as i can how we do it;We start off preferably with a swepped colonie to cause no burden on our main hives,make that either q-less or the q goes in lock up.Then,and that i didn't see appearing here,we need to break the bulbs they gonna pull,while we do we collect the q-jelly from them;Good 10 days later we over-larv from the hives of our best P0 q's,from what i understand here you call that grafting,correct me if i'm wrong.We use brandnew cups,straight out of the bag,dip the bottem moist with the earlier collected q-jelly and put the larve on top or better slide it gently on the bit sticky q-jelly dip,frame filled hung in,succesrate close to 100%,on an entire frame we might loose 2 or 3 at most that not get accepted,might be we hurted the larve,no clue,but for some reason always a few get neglected .So this conditioning of the cups is a mystery to me,no clue what's meant by that.We go 3 rounds of 75,so end up with bit over 200 closed off q cells.And i'm not afraid to admit it can go bit off for us too,the pic shows one of the "mishaps",only 40 out of 45 got accepted,pic was taken on day two,where we always do a check up.These were out of the regular numbers and used to practice artificial insimination later on.Ow,almost forgot,at the moment we collect the closed off cells,a q-less hive always can keep a few,sort of as a reward and the swepted hive of streetdog alleycats will transfer into a hive with an F1 q.

 

[Antipodes]

After the encouragement on here, I did a second round of grafting today. I used half conditioned cups and half new. Used the same colony. There were plenty of bees, but I used a bit of a Ben Harden method with fat dummies to concentrate the bees. Only sealed brood left in top box, so no risk of emergency cells. I will report back in a couple of days

@drex
I was wondering how your Cloake Board queen rearing went in the end?

 

[drex]

All my queen rearing through grafting was a bitter disappointment with few takes. Do not know what went wrong, as i felt i had followed all procedures correctly. Next year I intend to grafting into cups pre charged with jelly

 

[Ian123]

All my queen rearing through grafting was a bitter disappointment with few takes. Do not know what went wrong, as i felt i had followed all procedures correctly. Next year I intend to grafting into cups pre charged with jelly

I pre charged years ago, I think there’s a slight improvement but would suggest issues lay elsewhere. What was your procedure.

 

[simonforeman]

Ive grafted for the last 3 years and this year seemed the worse year, poor take on the grafting and poor mating.

 

[drex]

My procedure was to use a cloake board, following Dave Cushmans instructions precisely. Has worked for me in past. The grafting went really well as I used a mains powered illuminated magnifier for the first time. It made it so much easier.
I think the colony was not strong enough at the end of the day.
Next year will give Ben Harden a go

 

[Michael Palmer]

My procedure was to use a cloake board, following Dave Cushmans instructions precisely. Has worked for me in past. The grafting went really well as I used a mains powered illuminated magnifier for the first time. It made it so much easier.
I think the colony was not strong enough at the end of the day.
Next year will give Ben Harden a go

Was there ample jelly under the graftable larvae or were they almost dry?

 

[drex]

They were quite dry even though I was giving syrup in a frame feeder