When to use Deep Supers and when to use Normal Supers?

[LearningAlways009]

Just curious if there was a particular use for either, or if you use deep supers for brood and the other smaller ones for honey? or if it just varies on how strong ones hive is? thanks!

 

[666bees]

The norm is deep supers for brood and supers for honey.

 

[Finman]

.

I use them boath but i have not generated rules how to do it.
And i will not generate rules.

I had a hive on balance last summer. It brought 140 kg honey in 5 weeks. Later in Autum I calculated from phone picture, what I had there.
It was 5 langstroths and 3 mediums.

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Guess there would be a problem trying to extract honey from deep supers as they would not fit into a normal extractor ....

 

[oliver90owner]

There are shallow, deep and extra deep frames. You can use them for whichever you want, either in a brood box for brood or in a super for honey.

I used extra-deep as a super and extracted the frames in my nine frame radial, with tangential screens fitted.

Not normal, I agree, but I wanted some drawn comb for some nucs, so that is what I did. So, frames have sizes, and boxes can have different uses.

Usually, use of deeps, as supers, depends on how strong you are, along with other factors.

RAB

 

[Finman]

Guess there would be a problem trying to extract honey from deep supers as they would not fit into a normal extractor ....

if that is limitting factor, it is better use same frame size. It is vey difficult to nurse hives if you cannot extract brood size frames.
In Finland there are many beekeepers who use only medium size frames =super size. It needs a strong coony that the frame gap does not disturb the movement of winter cluster.

My back is in that condition now that medium size is good to me. Actually I cannot allways lift full langstroth box to my face level.

I am planned to make douple tower bottoms to the biggest hives. So I may nurse the hive on 3 box level.
I need to use this system only 2 months a year.

 

[drstitson]

as rab alludes to - using either one size box, or the occassional deep as a super, allows generation of extra drawn comb for nucs/brood boxes.

 

[Arfermo]

Just curious if there was a particular use for either, or if you use deep supers for brood and the other smaller ones for honey? or if it just varies on how strong ones hive is? thanks!

When a colony outgrows the space you give it, it will swarm. Giving them a super below the QE making it a brood and a half colony will help to control this tendency. There are other means of controlling swarming too, one of which is clipping the queens wings. The colony then van only go back where it came from leaving the old queen on the ground outside waiting for something to put her out of her misery ie you if you see her.

 

[jakethedog]

I am planned to make douple tower bottoms to the biggest hives. So I may nurse the hive on 3 box level.
I need to use this system only 2 months a year.

Finman, please, you can't make such a comment and then not elaborate!

'double tower bottoms' are you refering to an enlarged brood chamber or to two broods side by side with a single tower of supers -if the latter presumably you'd need to manage by comb transfer between boxes and maintain a check on supercedure in the queenless bottom -unless of course allowing a second queen to be mated from it. Over your stated two months I don't suppose an extra queen raised during the period would be a problem but left for any real length of time would defeat the object of the operation. Or maybe you mean something totally different....

 

[RoofTops]

I've gone over completely to using shallower frames throughout the hive. The frames I use are Langstroth Medium, or what are called Dadant shallow in the UK. The picture below shows two hives with a double brood box and a feeder. Of course, any supers added for the honey also use the same size frame. Each box is about the same useable volume as a British National brood box.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Just curious if there was a particular use for either, or if you use deep supers for brood and the other smaller ones for honey? or if it just varies on how strong ones hive is? thanks!

posts on here may confuse you more as i assume by your location and question you are using American hives

on here we are talking about UK National hives , and very few would know the concept of a super and deep supers. the uk National Hives use shallow super approx 6" depth, deep brood approx 8" depth and extra deep Brood (14x12) at 12" depth

Most beekeepers use the Shallow supers through out except our Comerciel honey farmers often use 8" Deeps instead for Honey collection either with brood in extra deeps or a simplied version 16x10. But a 8" Deep box full of honey is a very heavy item abour~ 50lbs to lift of a stack

 

[RoofTops]

In the US you can get 8 frame Langstroth boxes in different depths. For ladies especially, a hive using 8 Medium frames throughout reduces lifting loads significantly.

Michael Bush has written about it: http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm

He converted existing 10 frame boxes but 8 frame boxes can be purchased directly from the likes of Dadant: https://www.dadant.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=88

And before anyone get excited about the prices if you are just ordering a pallet or 2 (a skid in the US) you need to double them at least to include the cost of shipping to the UK and the big sting in the tail - container destuffing charges.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Guess there would be a problem trying to extract honey from deep supers as they would not fit into a normal extractor ....

I have use of a two frame tangential that was bought by my BKA to extract from 14x12 frames in Dartingtons ( could be used for Beehause and 16x10)

have we used it recently, yes, when a beginner fed 4 gallons of ambrosia to her 14x12 and the brood box was so full they built comb under the OMF with no laying space in the 14x12

 

[Finman]

Finman, please, you can't make such a comment and then not elaborate!

'double tower bottoms' are you refering to an enlarged brood chamber or to two broods . Or maybe you mean something totally different....

i have now maximum brood chamber because I do not use excluder. Difficult to enlarge it.

Douple tower has horizontal acces between boxes. if somebody makes longhives, why should I make widehives. Eight box tover is not good to nurse.

 

[Swarm]

If you are using Langstroth hives I think there are four box sizes, shallow, medium, deep and jumbo. How you configure would probably depend on capability or availability too, perhaps? I suppose shallows are used by those who find mediums a bit heavy.

 

[jakethedog]

Hello Finman,

Yes, I imagined that you meant something else, hence the last sentance to my post.

Or maybe you mean something totally different....

so, we come to this

i have now maximum brood chamber because I do not use excluder. Difficult to enlarge it.

Douple tower has horizontal acces between boxes.

Have you already trialled this (gut instinct tells me that you will have)? Bees want to go up and down, not across -unless under pressure to do so; or unless, you wish to tell me different.

 

[Finman]

Hello Finman,

Yes, I imagined that you meant something else, hence the last sentance to my post.




so, we come to this



Have you already trialled this (gut instinct tells me that you will have)? Bees want to go up and down, not across -unless under pressure to do so; or unless, you wish to tell me different.

thanks for warning. If the best hives will loose they instinct to forage that is really bad.
Guys have told that bees cannot handle horizontal space in long hive.

I have not trialled yet.

 

[jakethedog]

thanks for warning.

Boss,

Presumption is not a part of my character. I'm here on this forum primarily to learn. To that point, i'd be happy to trial half a dozen hives to your spec over the next couple of years, see what the comparable results give us. -In the hope that it makes things better I'll give it a go.

 

[premo]

A question from someone thinking of keeping bee’s why is there on most national hives I have seen only one brood chamber.
My thinking is and its most likely totally wrong, if you give the bees two brood chambers the queen has plenty of room to lay eggs and the colony to grow, you get more bees = more honey? Also would this not make them less likely to swarm?

 

[Hombre]

@Premo, Some bees seem to fit in a Standard National, whilst Carniolans quickly want to outgrow it. The answer then is double brood on Standard National boxes or perhaps using a 14x12. The difference is that a 14x12 that is up to winter weight is very heavy, but has 11 frames. A double brood box is 22 frames with the queen potentially anywhere, however unlikely.