When to split a colony

[Monkey]

If all goes well, it looks like my single colony has made it through the winter. I feel very exposed, having just the one colony, so I want to split this one, and go back to two (one didn't make it through winter last year).

Obviously it depends on weather etc, but when should I start to think about the split?

 

[Millet]

You will have to wait till the weather warms up so Virgin Queens can get out on mating flights..that is not till after June and into July in my area..

 

[birdsandbees]

It makes sense to wait until your remaining colony is strong enough, not necessarily in swarm mode but you don't want to deplete it too much, you could split and use a bought in queen to enable you do so earlier in the year and not have to worry about a virgin mating but as you aren't way up north late April should see a good number of Drones in the DCA's in your area.

 

[mike99]

You will have to wait till the weather warms up so Virgin Queens can get out on mating flights..that is not till after June and into July in my area..

Thanks Steve. As you know I am in the same boat so I will try to split the colony you gifted me.

 

[Millet]

Thanks Steve. As you know I am in the same boat so I will try to split the colony you gifted me.

When you do split that colony Mike you would be better of buying a Queen in..i do not know the temperament of your bees but two out of the three colonies here with the same Queen as yours are slightly aggressive so they will be re Queened at some point..

 

[Poly Hive]

Which begs the question is the queen which is bought in going to be a joy or otherwise.

Make sure the seller will guarantee the temperament.

PH

 

[Millet]

Which begs the question is the queen which is bought in going to be a joy or otherwise.

Make sure the seller will guarantee the temperament.

PH

I bought Five GM Queens last year..i killed one by mistake but the others are like babies...so i have a rough idea what i will be Re Queening with this year..

 

[For want of a better word]

If all goes well, it looks like my single colony has made it through the winter. I feel very exposed, having just the one colony, so I want to split this one, and go back to two (one didn't make it through winter last year).

Obviously it depends on weather etc, but when should I start to think about the split?

16 days after you see the first baby drones, at a minimum.. will vary from area to area, May / June in the South West if April is kind!!!

Yeghes da

 

[mike99]

When you do split that colony Mike you would be better of buying a Queen in..i do not know the temperament of your bees but two out of the three colonies here with the same Queen as yours are slightly aggressive so they will be re Queened at some point..

Thanks for the advice Steve. They are pretty calm. I was trying to change the Fondant the other day and they didn't really hassle me. But it might be better to get one in. Has anyone got any recommendations for Queen breeders?

 

[For want of a better word]

Thanks for the advice Steve. They are pretty calm. I was trying to change the Fondant the other day and they didn't really hassle me. But it might be better to get one in. Has anyone got any recommendations for Queen breeders?

Ged Marshall probably for Buckie type bees suitable for your neck of the woods!

 

[Millet]

Thanks for the advice Steve. They are pretty calm. I was trying to change the Fondant the other day and they didn't really hassle me. But it might be better to get one in. Has anyone got any recommendations for Queen breeders?

If they are calm like the one of two i have here you will be fine..they are F2's which says the local mongrels here are not so bad..once you go to F3 the poop hits the fan... i have a F3 colony here and it is mental but nowhere near as bad as the Thirsk mongrels i started with..they are very defensive but not aggressive if you get my meaning..(they do not follow very far)..as far as buying in Queens .
Try GM (not sure of there honey making capability) but for calmness (unbelievabley calm) or Exmoor Bees..

 

[Poly Hive]

Or Denrosa.

PH

 

[mike99]

Thanks for the recommendations. I will check them out.

 

[Walrus]

If all goes well, it looks like my single colony has made it through the winter. I feel very exposed, having just the one colony, so I want to split this one, and go back to two (one didn't make it through winter last year).

Obviously it depends on weather etc, but when should I start to think about the split?

I agree that it is a scary time when you only have one or two colonies and understand the need to make increase. I think it's best to wait until the colony is strong and the weather is warm. Normally for me that would probably be May. In such circumstances you might be able to make 2 nucs from the colony.

I would strongly suggest using mated queens just because you want them to get on with it asap. If you shake plenty of bees into the nuc(s) and use laying queens they have a good chance to grow strong before winter. Of course, mated queens might not be available until late May/early June depending on weather.

 

[Monkey]

Thank you everyone, that's very helpful.

 

[masterBK]

If you let a colony build up to two broodchambers with say 14 or 15 combs of brood and then demaree it you can combine queen rearing with swarm prevention and when a queen cell two days off emergence put top BC on own floor and end up with two colonies.

 

[Millet]

If you let a colony build up to two broodchambers with say 14 or 15 combs of brood and then demaree it you can combine queen rearing with swarm prevention and when a queen cell two days off emergence put top BC on own floor and end up with two colonies.

You might loose a newbie with this..

 

[Monkey]

You might loose a newbie with this..

Indeed.

 

[For want of a better word]

Indeed.

Basically,,, let the colony build up in strength using two brood boxes so they can draw out the comb in both boxes.. without any queen excluder.

Then one fine and warm afternoon move both boxes of bees to one side ( stand them on a new floor)
At this point an empty brood box and an empty super would be useful.

Put your empty brood box on the old floor in its original place.
Pull the frames one at a time from the boxes full of bees.
If they have brood on them put them back in the box,,,, if they have no or very little brood on them put them in the empty new box with bees attached.

If you see the queen put her on the frame into the new box.
Now you will have one new box full of frames without much brood on them and hopefully the queen in your new box on the old stand... and a box with frames with bees and brood,...
One frame at a time shake all the remaining bees into the new box on the old stand,, you can put a super on top to make a funnel... putting the frames without bees back into the box... a few bees will remain... do not worry if you did not find the queen... she will be in one box or the other.
Now put a queen excluder on top of the box with the bees and no brood frames on the old floor, put the box with the brood on top, crown board and roof... you should have an empty brood box that can now be taken away and cleaned ready to use again.... a super and a floor.

Following afternoon.
Place your new floor a few meters away from the old one( hive with bees in)
Take roof and crown board off and take box with all the brood and bees in it ( one on top above the queen excluder) and put it on the new floor.. fit a crown board and a roof

Take queen excluder off hive in original position, fit crown board and roof... some would feed some candy.

Flying bees from hive on new floor will return to the old hive,,, nurse bees will stay.

Check both hives in 3 days for eggs.... one with eggs in will have the queen.
One without will produce a new queen.... check that one in 14 days for sealed queen cell... if loads leave three.

Much easier to say Demaree... but then I have read of three differing very confusing methods!

Good luck.

 

[Bienenwachs]

Cheers,

Thank you for the Demaree description, it’s for posts like this that I keep coming back to this forum.