when to feed

[Finman]

On a follow-on, point perhaps it might be necessary to consider overpopulation in some ares.
Twice recently I have visited semi-rural apiaries where in one there were 20 hives in a small field and in another 12.


Just throwing this in. Don't know what others think. No PC polemics please.

For that reason I keep only 2-4 hives in one site.

This summer I had one box this year nuc alone in woods. It got 45 kg in ten days raspberry honey. Flowers full of nectar and short flying distance.

It got same yield than 4 times bigger hives on my cottage yard. But after that job it was exhausted and lack of bees.

 

[BDaddy]

I did not noticed - sorry! British humour again at its best. May the Force be with you[/B]

And with you too

 

[BDaddy]

On a follow-on, point perhaps it might be necessary to consider overpopulation in some ares.

As a general principle I would wholly agree with this point. I'm not so sure that this applies here in Cumbria although I'm unaware of any reliable stats to substantiate this. I'm inclined to think that given the low population density for the county I would imagine that overpopulation would not be a significant issue county wide but could be an issue in specific areas within it.

Twice recently I have visited semi-rural apiaries where in one there were 20 hives in a small field and in another 12. These relied on farmland, often monocultured, and local, maybe diminished, wild flowers for sustenance.

Generally I think is the crux of the matter particularly the point with respect to natural flora. I have certainly noticed a reduction in both the quantity quality & diversity of the natural flora within my area. However, I am inclined to believe that the most significant issue here in Cumbria (which is where the original poster of this thread is situated) is the very poor weather we have been having over the past two months.

Large imports of non native bees and queen stock are also thought to be possibly storing up problems for the future.

I would agree with this point in principle, however I think it rather depends on the type of bee being imported together with the area within the UK they eventually end up. There is certainly a North-South divide within the UK with very different climatic conditions from south to north being suited to a different type of imported bee. I do not subscribe to the general principle that imports "per se" are a bad thing. However I do think that the use of a particular type of bee coming from an environment very different to that it eventually ends up in, is somewhat counterproductive on a number of levels.

Regards
BD

 

[Finman]

.
I have bees in South East corner of Finland. The soil is poor and farmland is sparse. When we go to west, there are wide cultivated clay fields and arid forest isles here and there. Isles are cliffy and dry.

I have splended possibilities to select good pastures. In Western Finland bee density is high and land is carefully cultivated.

I move hives inside 20 km. Without that my yiedls could be 1/3 of recent.

Soil

 

[ken]

hi can any body tell me what size hole i need to feed my bees iv made a cleaer perspecs board for a nuc box but dont no the size of the hole to feed them

 

[BDaddy]

For that reason I keep only 2-4 hives in one site.

This summer I had one box this year nuc alone in woods. It got 45 kg in ten days raspberry honey. Flowers full of nectar and short flying distance.

It got same yield than 4 times bigger hives on my cottage yard. But after that job it was exhausted and lack of bees.

A perfect example of the issues being discussed and in many senses why beekeepers in Cumbria are having a problem.......the raspberries which should/would have provided a good reliable source of forage didnt. I suspect that the same situation applies to many other forage types.

Like you Finman I have hives located within a substantial area of woodland which usually provides large quantities of natural raspberry. This year the raspberries are almost non-existant.

Regards
BD

 

[BDaddy]

Interesting information Finman. I must try to locate one for my area. It would be interesting for comparison.

 

[BDaddy]

hi can any body tell me what size hole i need to feed my bees iv made a cleaer perspecs board for a nuc box but dont no the size of the hole to feed them

Depends on the type of feeder your going to use.

BD

 

[Finman]

A
Like you Finman I have hives located within a substantial area of woodland which usually provides large quantities of natural raspberry. This year the raspberries are almost non-existant.

Regards
BD

We have got a huge raspberry yield during last 2 years. But 3 years ago raspberry flowers dried up totally.

In balance hives it has been existed 15 kg day weight rises from raspberry.

Last year it was rare that rape did not ive nectar. Reason was continuos little rain. Sometimes the surplus comes fefore 15.7. and sometimes after 15.7.

Our surpluss flow is over 10.8. and it is quite sure date.

I have cultivated raspberry in containers and it its flowers are very sensitive to lack of water
.

 

[Finman]

Playing with one card

I have opportunities to select pastures. There are few beekeepers in my area.

I can shoose 100 hectar rape, 30 hectar fireweed or 10 hectar rasberry. Red clover means a big winter cluster.

But this a playing with one card. Rains and no rains may affect that I get nothing. How sensitive is the soil to dryness.

If the soil is dry, it may take several weeks that rains come and vegetation start to live again.

Rain may stop tomorrow and bees can forage inside a week.

I avoid dry soils. They are dangerous.

I avoid one card playing. I try to find places which can offer to me many kind of yields and many kind of lanscape.

*******

I have explained to me many times why I got an bad yield, that it was weather. But then I put my hives in diffrent places. One year I got 20 kg from a place which gove me before 100 kg/hive. I said to me: it was weather! But then I had another place 3 miles away and I got there 120 kg/hive when another place gove 20 kg per hive.


After that I have put my hives in different places as 2-4 groups. I have noticed that the yield may be 3 fold in another site and the distance is only 3-5 miles.

That is difficult issue and season is so rapid to correct faults.

.

 

[mel1of4]

Another idea to throw into the mix: before the current cool rainy spell in Cumbria, we had 6 months of exceptionally dry weather. I wonder whether this could have affected the plants' ability to produce nectar/pollen?
Many thanks for all the comments, I've learned a lot.

 

[madasafish]

I wonder whether this could have affected the plants' ability to produce nectar/pollen?

Our raspberry crop - which I always weigh with records going back to 2003 - is the lowest for that period.. Approx.60% last year's and much later -. I blame the very cold winter (many plants died about 60% up the cane) and the dry spring..

So yes: that will have affected pollen and nectar yields here...

 

[RDF]

I picked up a new Brood box and Nuc Saturday.
The Bee breeder, who had collected the box from a supplier and transferred the Nuc, said they:”would not starve” if I did not feed them. When I spoke to the Equipment supplier he was adamant I start feeding NOW. Not tomorrow-NOW.
I done as advised and intended to fill up again in a couple of days.
By the way I’m in the West of Ireland so there are plenty of wild flowers but no commercial crops (they grow sheep around here)
What are the Forum members’ views on my pre-winter feeding requirements?

 

[Finman]

.
You should think late summer, and later autumn. Winter is not coming. It is really long time to next winter.

If you have "non food period" now, it is not winter question.

 

[johna]

+One problem with nectar yields this year in the u.k is that due to our exceptionally cold and prolonged winter in 2010 most plants are about 1 month behind normal.Here in the s.w of Scotland plants like nettles are just flowering (causing me considerable problems with hay fever this year) the same is true in Cumbria which is due south of here.This means that colonies are slow to build up due to lack of natural feed unless they are supplemented with feed by the beekeeper.July has been VERY wet,cool and windy in these parts which makes the bees very reluctant to forage.I've been feeding my bees a small amount for some time now just to keep them strong.The only honey this year has been early spring when they filled 3 supers but nothing of any merit since.

 

[BKF Admin]

My own way of working is to give them a slowish feed when I take the honey off (now) if there isn't much coming in. If they've got balsam around or some other good forage I don't bother.
This helps in producing the brood for the Winter bees.
At the same time I'm treating for varroa.
Then at the end of August/1st week in September I'll feed more heavily/quickly on all colonies, if it is needed, to provide the stores needed for over Wintering.
So to me it's a two stage job, bees then stores.

Peter

Is that fondant in September Peter ? or do you use up some syrup first ?

 

[freckledbeck]

Got an email from our local BKA saying start feeding now....
Think I'll be bulk buying sugar tomorrow!

 

[Vortex]

I inspected my bees today. On the 1st they had 2 frames of capped stores in the super and 2 further frames about 2/3 full.
Today they had 1 capped frame in the super and ****** all else. They're not being robbed and I don't have a wasp problem. It's been a pretty constant 21C+ here for most of that period with a couple of wet days.
Whilst most plants started late due to the winter the almost drought conditions of the last 3 months have meant that things got a move on, flowered, and set seed or died back. My potatoe crop on the allotment is the worst for 4 years and they all went in 2 weeks later than last year. My raspberries, autumn fruiting, which don't normally start flowering for another week or so have all finished and are busy setting and developing fruit. At the current rate they'll have finished by mid September, when normally they'd continue fruiting until the first frost.
It really is a mixed bag depending on exactly where you are. I'm now starting to feed my bees and will have to do so until I see evidence of any form of ivy flow.
The hives I co-own at the site in Kent 100 miles away are still productive and have had no such problems, but even down there things are early, with the ivy starting to flower now.

 

[oliver90owner]

I'm with Finman here. If we need to be winter feeding now, it's gonna be a looong hard winter! That is why we are beekeepers. We look after them in times of dearth, so they are srtill alive and well when the up-turn comes along. It is a give and take (symbiotic, you might describe it) relationship. Maybe some want to take all and give little back. I prefer to take less and feed if necessary - as most of the time they can manage perfectly adequately.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

.
So, question is about emergency feeding not winter feeding.


Do you think that your hive will survive over winter when you fill it now with sugar?

Is that all what you are can do?


What we need for winter

- a good cluster of bees - do we get it that way

- restrict the room to the size of winter cluster

- do you know how big the cluster will be

- winter cluster will same size as your brood area in September (UK?) It is 2 brood cycles to the winter bee rearing in the hive


- Recent bees will be all dead before winter


How wide is that weather area where " winter is coming". Is it the whole UK?