When to call it a day on the heather?

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Rob55

House Bee
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
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232
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Location
N.Ireland
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
4
The ling here is still in full bloom, and on my last inspection 6 days ago they had started working a few frames in the super with just a little uncapped honey in the middle of the frames, the fortnight before that they had done absolutely nothing. The weather next week is to be awful and after that it will be getting late in the month, just wondering when do people normally call it a day and bring the bees home and get the feeding and treatment started? I hope to inspect this evening and make a call on whether to leave them on the hill for another week or two, or remove the super and start to feed.
 
Mine were doing nothing on it and moved them home two nights ago, but am sure somebody with a lot more know how on the matter will be along soon.
Darren
 
As the nights get colder and the wind is sharper its time to bring the bees down. I've always agonised over when exactly is best though, my more experienced beekeeping friends tend to pencil in a convenient date for bringing them back and stick to this unless conditions dictate otherwise in a glaringly obvious way (flow still happening or snow storms). This issue of the flow still going on is a bit imponderable, as many heather sites are far away from home and a separate trip to ascertain if the flow is on can be out of the question. My take on it all is that conditions on the hills are quite attritional and even if we get a late September fine spell the bees will have lost the power to do much with any flow so its best to get them down mid month if not before.
 
The hill is only 10mins from my house so no big deal to take a trip up to see how they are doing. On the last inspection there were 6 full frames of solid sealed brood waiting to emerge so there should be an explosion in bee numbers pretty much now. I am tempted to leave them up another week or two just to see how they fair out, only thing bothering me is will it be too cold to feed come the end of Sept and then treat coming into Oct?
 
A number of people I know with bees on the heather have commented that it has been a poor year for honey from the heather ... all scratching their heads as to why but theory is that it was the late wet spring and the very dry summer ...

Any other theories ?
 
I brought my 17 strongest hives to the heather on the 3rd of august. All the flow happened in the first week and a bit and i thought i was going to have a record bumper crop. I brought them all home aweek ago as even thought the weather was good there was very little coming into the hives and they were starting to cosume what they had stored.Some Brood chambers were ever so light when i brought them up and was worried that they would starve , but 2 days later when i returned you could hear the roar of fanning bees and smell the flow coming from the hive.. They filled up the brood boxes to winter weight and stored an average of about 15 lb per hives in the supers. Every year i do it i keep saying that its the last year, as i move to the heather and bring them home on my own.
 
Every year i do it i keep saying that its the last year, as i move to the heather and bring them home on my own.

I know the feeling Keith, it usually manifests itself as a stiffness in my back in the mornings.
 
A number of people I know with bees on the heather have commented that it has been a poor year for honey from the heather ... all scratching their heads as to why but theory is that it was the late wet spring and the very dry summer ...

Any other theories ?

No theories to support that. Mainly because it has not been a poor year on the heather, with reports from many parts indicating an average to rather above average (not bumper) season. We will have approx. 50 tonnes, and on reduced hive numbers after last winter, so a bit over average per colony at approx. 50lb, as against long term average (over the last 30 years) of just short of 44lb. (Note: this figure is over ALL colonies big and small, not just 'producers only' which some use to offer impressive results that leave you scratching your head about what you are doing wrong.)

As for when to call it a day? Well in all our years of going to the heather we have seen significant September honey on only 5 occasions, and that is on records going back to 1950. Only ONCE have we seen significant nectar after 5th September, and that finished about 12th. This is irrespective of the state of the flowering. Even places with good late flowerings (usually in forested areas) give nothing other than a little pollen after that date. We start the process of stripping and removal each year by 5th September, and some major producers start as early as 28th August.

However, as the end of yield does appear more linked to seasonality rather than the actual weather and flora at the time, its important to remember where you are located. Ling heather is one of the few plants who have their peak in northern latitudes first, and can be yielding way through September and even into early October once you get to the south of France or Spain. So the absolute answer depends on where you are located, and that means using the local knowledge, and from people who are reliable, rather than the chronic exaggerators who will mislead you into making errors.

If you only have a few colonies I would be getting them home now, and fed for winter very soon, but do not overfeed as it can reduce the amount of late brood they can raise before winter, plus September is the very best month of the year for renewing a few combs in the nest, as brood comb drawn this month (during feeding!) is perfect and devoid of drone cells. Place a few frames with new foundation in the centre of the nest area, never two together, interspersed with the old combs, feed the hive, and look at the results.
 
No theories to support that. Mainly because it has not been a poor year on the heather, with reports from many parts indicating an average to rather above average (not bumper) season. We will have approx. 50 tonnes, and on reduced hive numbers after last winter, so a bit over average per colony at approx. 50lb, as against long term average (over the last 30 years) of just short of 44lb. (Note: this figure is over ALL colonies big and small, not just 'producers only' which some use to offer impressive results that leave you scratching your head about what you are doing wrong.)

As for when to call it a day? Well in all our years of going to the heather we have seen significant September honey on only 5 occasions, and that is on records going back to 1950. Only ONCE have we seen significant nectar after 5th September, and that finished about 12th. This is irrespective of the state of the flowering. Even places with good late flowerings (usually in forested areas) give nothing other than a little pollen after that date. We start the process of stripping and removal each year by 5th September, and some major producers start as early as 28th August.

However, as the end of yield does appear more linked to seasonality rather than the actual weather and flora at the time, its important to remember where you are located. Ling heather is one of the few plants who have their peak in northern latitudes first, and can be yielding way through September and even into early October once you get to the south of France or Spain. So the absolute answer depends on where you are located, and that means using the local knowledge, and from people who are reliable, rather than the chronic exaggerators who will mislead you into making errors.

If you only have a few colonies I would be getting them home now, and fed for winter very soon, but do not overfeed as it can reduce the amount of late brood they can raise before winter, plus September is the very best month of the year for renewing a few combs in the nest, as brood comb drawn this month (during feeding!) is perfect and devoid of drone cells. Place a few frames with new foundation in the centre of the nest area, never two together, interspersed with the old combs, feed the hive, and look at the results.

As always ITLD a very interesting post and from the perspective of having a large number of hives in very diverse locations, your input at what must be a very busy time is appreciated.

So ... as some people (and a number on this thread - which initially sparked my comment) are reporting poor crops of honey from taking their hives to the heather - am I right in thinking that this may be because they actually mis-timed the very short window of opportunity that the heather presents ?

Either by leaving their hives too long on the heather (and the bees consuming the stores they generated) or by getting the hives there too late and the flow was over ?

How do you determine the exact point at which a hive should be put on the heather ? You, clearly, have the knowledge to get it just right as your experience this year is, by your estimation, above average. The actual date is obviously influenced by where in the country the heather is and presumably the local climatic conditions ... so is there an indicator ?
 
How do you determine the exact point at which a hive should be put on the heather ? You, clearly, have the knowledge to get it just right as your experience this year is, by your estimation, above average. The actual date is obviously influenced by where in the country the heather is and presumably the local climatic conditions ... so is there an indicator ?

lol....were it that clever I would have something worthwhile to tell, but alas I do not.

We actually start our season from earliest spring with a goal of maximum number of colonies in the correct condition for going to the heather, which accounts for approx. 80% of our cash earnings. Thus the various blossom harvests are more of a by product rather than a target in themselves. This results in us having very poor early season harvests, but the biggest heather crop in the country most years.

We watch the BELL heather to get a firm handle on when to start the big move, which usually means a start between the 3rd and 8th of July, with a target in all but the very latest of seasons of finishing on the Ling only sites by a date between the 25th and 30th of July. This year we were seeing a later than normal Ling opening (it did catch up though) so completed on 3rd August.

Thus we run on a Bell heather trigger for starting, and then just go at it full tilt for around 3 weeks. This normally means our arrival at the Ling is timed for the very latest lots to be there at 5 to 10% flowering stage. So its a rather mechanical process, and if the big flow is in the 3rd week of July on the Bell then many of our hives will miss it. Thus its really a sort of educated luck.

Back to the subject of lore. There is ample documented advice that if you have the bees up for the heather by the grouse shooting starting, so 12th Aug except when that falls on a Sunday, then you are up in time. This is seriously outdated advice, also based on a seriously outdated production system (cramping), yet is still widely promulgated.

In the last 20 years if you went up for that date then in about one third of seasons you have missed the best, and sometimes missed it all. In OUR three main areas it is best to be on the moors by the last week of July.

Not going raking about looking for it, but there are Norwegian studies about yield potential of Calluna related to weather patterns in the few months preceding flowering sate, and there is a cumulative effect of sunshine hours on the foliage influencing the nectar potential of the bloom. Of course we also need water, preferably in abundance, to trigger a major nectar flow. This year the moors got a bit fried in the heatwave which did a lot of damage, but once the rains came the nectar flow was heavy, however overall ground water was sparse, and once nature stopped replenishing the available moisture the flow tailed off. Thus there was not a huge amount to be had late in the process and many of our colonies went into 'fill in down' mode earlier than expected.

Upside this year is that the bees look in great condition for winter, with abundant young bees, plenty brood still hatching, and low varroa levels. Young queens effectively and abundantly mated too, so expecting a good wintering performance. A stark contrast to the run of iffy to awful summers we just had in Scotland and the poor autumn condition of the colonies and the bad winter losses flowing from that. All we needed was a decent summer to lay several of the current 'bogeymen of choice' to rest.
 
lol....were it that clever I would have something worthwhile to tell, but alas I do not.

We actually start our season from earliest spring with a goal of maximum number of colonies in the correct condition for going to the heather, which accounts for approx. 80% of our cash earnings. Thus the various blossom harvests are more of a by product rather than a target in themselves. This results in us having very poor early season harvests, but the biggest heather crop in the country most years.

We watch the BELL heather to get a firm handle on when to start the big move, which usually means a start between the 3rd and 8th of July, with a target in all but the very latest of seasons of finishing on the Ling only sites by a date between the 25th and 30th of July. This year we were seeing a later than normal Ling opening (it did catch up though) so completed on 3rd August.

Thus we run on a Bell heather trigger for starting, and then just go at it full tilt for around 3 weeks. This normally means our arrival at the Ling is timed for the very latest lots to be there at 5 to 10% flowering stage. So its a rather mechanical process, and if the big flow is in the 3rd week of July on the Bell then many of our hives will miss it. Thus its really a sort of educated luck.

Back to the subject of lore. There is ample documented advice that if you have the bees up for the heather by the grouse shooting starting, so 12th Aug except when that falls on a Sunday, then you are up in time. This is seriously outdated advice, also based on a seriously outdated production system (cramping), yet is still widely promulgated.

In the last 20 years if you went up for that date then in about one third of seasons you have missed the best, and sometimes missed it all. In OUR three main areas it is best to be on the moors by the last week of July.

Not going raking about looking for it, but there are Norwegian studies about yield potential of Calluna related to weather patterns in the few months preceding flowering sate, and there is a cumulative effect of sunshine hours on the foliage influencing the nectar potential of the bloom. Of course we also need water, preferably in abundance, to trigger a major nectar flow. This year the moors got a bit fried in the heatwave which did a lot of damage, but once the rains came the nectar flow was heavy, however overall ground water was sparse, and once nature stopped replenishing the available moisture the flow tailed off. Thus there was not a huge amount to be had late in the process and many of our colonies went into 'fill in down' mode earlier than expected.

Upside this year is that the bees look in great condition for winter, with abundant young bees, plenty brood still hatching, and low varroa levels. Young queens effectively and abundantly mated too, so expecting a good wintering performance. A stark contrast to the run of iffy to awful summers we just had in Scotland and the poor autumn condition of the colonies and the bad winter losses flowing from that. All we needed was a decent summer to lay several of the current 'bogeymen of choice' to rest.

Thanks ITLD ... this is a fascinating insight ... I think a lot of people probably don't realise what a short time frame there is for the heather and the importance of getting it right on the timing.

I'm glad it's been a good year for you ... can hardly have been much fun for a commercial beekeeper over the last couple of seasons.

It certainly looks like most colonies will go into this winter in good shape ... mine still have loads of brood and good stores; I'm keeping an eye on them to be ready for a last minute feed but they are on the ivy down here now and I'm pretty hopeful that they will be self sufficient. A bit of decent sun makes all the difference.
 
Of course we also need water, preferably in abundance, to trigger a major nectar flow. This year the moors got a bit fried in the heatwave which did a lot of damage, but once the rains came the nectar flow was heavy, however overall ground water was sparse, and once nature stopped replenishing the available moisture the flow tailed off.QUOTE]

there was never really much rain here after the drought and even still it is very dry with grass tight, presume Scotland got more rain than here
 
My 6 hives only returned 15lbs average this time , well down on last year but we went Aug 11th (lift not available earlier) so in future will get to the moors by end July.
 
My 6 hives only returned 15lbs average this time , well down on last year but we went Aug 11th (lift not available earlier) so in future will get to the moors by end July.

Andy,

I was wondering where you were in the UK? And when you brought your hives back? Just to compare when to bring my 2 out back.

Sean
 
Report from Wharfedale

Just to report that I took two hives to heather near Skipton. 7 August to 3 September. The flow was fairly steady throughout, with the majority in the first 10 days. We had some rain in late July, and good weather while the bees were there. 57lbs in the supers between the two; that's a good year for me.
 
Andy,

I was wondering where you were in the UK? And when you brought your hives back? Just to compare when to bring my 2 out back.

Sean

Sean, I Live in the Lenches, near Evesham Worcestershire, took bees to moors in Abergavenny area this year August 11th, returned 14th Sept. Last year took last week July, returned mid September. Much more heather honey last year than this, but possibly more pure this time than last as it did have gorse honey in it. Also, heather within 500 yds of hives on thin soil above workings was scorched during the heatwave and had no flower at all.
 
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my mates bringing mine home on saturday.. the news is there very heavy. hope they took the bricks off the roof when they hefted. wele see
 

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