What's wrong with local bees? :)

[madasafish]

When is local not local?

Distance?
Altitude?
Colour of bees?

All I read about are LOTS of claims and very few studies..
When I look at practises, I would not use any local bee I have encountered...certainly no "feral" ones. They fall into the "runamile" category of bees.

I view it all as propaganda and if you watch any BIBBA video, Cummings would be proud (edit or ashamed of its crudity depending on your persuasion) of the crude propaganda . which usually lasts about 30% of the time..

 

[Apple]

When is local not local?

Distance?
Altitude?
Colour of bees?

All I read about are LOTS of claims and very few studies..
When I look at practises, I would not use any local bee I have encountered...certainly no "feral" ones. They fall into the "runamile" category of bees.

I view it all as propaganda and if you watch any BIBBA video, Cummings would be proud (edit or ashamed of its crudity depending on your persuasion) of the crude propaganda . which usually lasts about 30% of the time..

Finman has already described local as being the Village Genepool

One from which the best are selected and new colonies started from

A system of constant assessment weeding out the poor genes and selecting the ones you wish for.

Perhaps occasionally a wild gene will enter via introgression from an exotic variety, this may be advantageous to your queen rearing programme.

All of this can be accomplished at home although some prefer to take their breeder queen bees to Greece, Italy, or one of the Mediterranean islands... but are progeney of these queens, reared overseas from local UK stocks... local or imports?

Chons da

 

[madasafish]

Finman has already described local as being the Village Genepool

One from which the best are selected and new colonies started from

A system of constant assessment weeding out the poor genes and selecting the ones you wish for.

Perhaps occasionally a wild gene will enter via introgression from an exotic variety, this may be advantageous to your queen rearing programme.

All of this can be accomplished at home although some prefer to take their breeder queen bees to Greece, Italy, or one of the Mediterranean islands... but are progeney of these queens, reared overseas from local UK stocks... local or imports?

Chons da

The best local bees here are dead ones.

 

[Norton]

 

[fiat500bee]

Local mongrels

...locally adapted mongrels...

 

[user 819]

All I know is that my swarms collected from a bush or a tree have appeared locally where they came from previously who cares. As long as the temper is good and I get honey from them in good times, they are cheap and free. I have no time to play and produce excess queens unless I throw a nuc together.

 

[Apple]

The best local bees here are dead ones.

That's somewhat sad

 

[Finman]

...locally adapted mongrels...

Since Ice Age

 

[Swarm]

To me locally adapted means the following:
-Locally reared ie allowed to develop without proactively ‘introduced’ foreign sources, which can cause variability and instability, making it near impossible to create a locally adapted bee
-Adapted means has genes that makes them fitter ie more likely to survive in the prevailing local conditions
-This doesn’t mean isolation. Concentration of genes can result in loss of adaptability to local conditions as they change, ie genetic diversity is a good thing
Agree there is probably a confusion of terms and creating a locally adapted bee is very difficult to achieve without everyone buying into the idea. However selecting and rearing queens from your best has to be a good place to start
Elaine

Another excellent post.

 

[fiat500bee]

My friend professional beekeeper said, that his bees are not the same as 10 years ago. Continuos beebreeding changed genepool. New genes come in to the genepool. But they are locally adapted.

That's how I see it. It seems impossible and a waste of "worry-energy" to try to keep a "pure" local gene-pool.

I don't think bees kept by beekeepers need to be perfectly adapted to a locality because the beekeeper will provide food, better housing or medication if it's needed, (or even if its not!). The "adapted" that I am looking for is bees which are comfortable in our environment and can thrive stress-free without such intensive support from me.

 

[user 819]

My bests ones collected as a swarm last April returned 80lbs late last summer though had to be fed very tiny amounts to keep them going until the flow appeared. This year they produced very little summer excess but did provide a very nice 108lbs spring crop taken off end of May.

 

[Finman]

My bests ones collected as a swarm last April returned 80lbs late last summer though had to be fed very tiny amounts to keep them going until the flow appeared. This year they produced very little summer excess but did provide a very nice 108lbs spring crop taken off end of May.

Adapted meant to the climate.

Adapt to pastures means nothing.

Good yied comes from pastures, if the colony is big enough to gather it and store it.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Personally I think the whole locally adapted bee waffle is a load of bovine excrement.

The queen's have been reared locally and the original stock was my grandads Italians from 2015.. They are more Amm than Italians as all my other bees are so.
The queen's that I selected have still the Italian colouring and the colonys act and perform in much the same way.

Here's a video of one of our local Italian colonys.
As you can see they are very dark.. But the Queen is as orange/yellow as you like.
I'll post some pictures in the future of my Italian local queens for you to look at

So they are not heinz 57's then just mongrels like most of the bee population in this country.



Personally I think all this waffle about locally adapted bees is a pile of bovine excrement, shoveled up and fed to the gullible.
The driving force behind it is a post turtle.

 

[Finman]

Personally I think the whole locally adapted bee waffle is a load of bovine excrement.
.

I have same opinion according this short discussion.

A word is a tool to communicate. The word should have common meaning that communication will succeed. In this case everyone can keep his opinion.

 

[Apple]

Personally I think the whole locally adapted bee waffle is a load of bovine excrement.


So they are not heinz 57's then just mongrels like most of the bee population in this country.



Personally I think all this waffle about locally adapted bees is a pile of bovine excrement, shoveled up and fed to the gullible.
The driving force behind it is a post turtle.

OK we get it.. you do not like the bees you have in your locality and seem not to be prepared to do anything to bring about change for the better.

I seem to recall another Nigel somewhere north of Watford who had the same axe to grind as yourself!

Why is it not possible for a beebreeder to select out bees that are fit for his perpouse and adapted to their local environmental conditions. in the UK with the existing local bees?

I wonder????

 

[Curly green finger's]

That's how I see it. It seems impossible and a waste of "worry-energy" to try to keep a "pure" local gene-pool.

I don't think bees kept by beekeepers need to be perfectly adapted to a locality because the beekeeper will provide food, better housing or medication if it's needed, (or even if its not!). The "adapted" that I am looking for is bees which are comfortable in our environment and can thrive stress-free without such intensive support from me.

Personally I think the whole locally adapted bee waffle is a load of bovine excrement.


So they are not heinz 57's then just mongrels like most of the bee population in this country.



Personally I think all this waffle about locally adapted bees is a pile of bovine excrement, shoveled up and fed to the gullible.
The driving force behind it is a post turtle.

You have your opinion nigel, I have mine.
Each to there own.
I can safely say that by the start of May my mongrels are on 11 frames of solid brood and need some attention.
I've f1 Amm stock and they are nowhere near that.
Im not just faffing about here and most deffo not gullible... Albeit I have a tutch of dislexia.

 

[Nige.Coll]

You have your opinion nigel, I have mine.
Each to there own.
I can safely say that by the start of May my mongrels are on 11 frames of solid brood and need some attention.
I've f1 Amm stock and they are nowhere near that.
Im not just faffing about here and most deffo not gullible... Albeit I have a tutch of dislexia.

I have some mongrels that maintain 16-18 frames of brood through the summer and produce a decent honey crop I kept 1 apiary full of the best ones.

Should of put the 2 comments on different posts as the gullible comment had nothing to do with my reply to your post.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I have some mongrels that maintain 16-18 frames of brood through the summer and produce a decent honey crop I kept 1 apiary full of the best ones.

Should of put the 2 comments on different posts as the gullible comment had nothing to do with my reply to your post.

Do what you like! I'm not having a mongrel war on here feel free to PM me if you like.

 

[Nige.Coll]

OK we get it.. you do not like the bees you have in your locality and seem not to be prepared to do anything to bring about change for the better.

I seem to recall another Nigel somewhere north of Watford who had the same axe to grind as yourself!

Why is it not possible for a beebreeder to select out bees that are fit for his perpouse and adapted to their local environmental conditions. in the UK with the existing local bees?

I wonder????

I spent 5 years improving the local mongrels I had and the lot went out the window when another beekeeper moved into the area.
Life is too short and queen rearing is not hard so I do that and get a predictable outcome for my time and better bees.

No Idea who the other Nigel is. I have never spoken to you before and have no idea who you are.
I have no axe to grind just a low tolerance of BS.

 

[Apple]

Do what you like! I'm not having a mongrel war on here feel free to PM me if you like.

Nigel is having a hissey fit, and from what I can remember is never to be convinced otherwise.
Chons da