what would you do

[irishguy]

I was given a cast swarm with a virgin queen last night and I put it in an empty hive around 10pm. I've also 3 hives that had no sign of virgin queens laying on 23-26 days after hatching. Its now 33 days after hatching and I was told to have a check on my hives again this wknd and if there's still no signs of eggs, I should unite the cast with one of my supposedly Queen less hives.

Another option which was advised to me is, the association may have some virgin queens and if they do, get some and put into the Queen less hives.

What's your thoughts on this

 

[pargyle]

Virgin queens won't lay until they've mated ... it could be up to 3 weeks or more before you see eggs so .. that will be middle August earliest ... then think of the time from egg to forager bees ... what do you hope to achieve with these virgins ?

If you want a viable hive from all of these virgins you would be better getting your hands on a mated and laying queen NOW and combining the lot ... more chance of them building to a size that they will overwinter. At the moment it's going nowhere ...

Sorry .... Is this a wind up ? You've surely learnt something on here over the last two years ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

What's your thoughts on this

Give up beekeeping and take up hang gliding

 

[enrico]

Leave them.... See what happens......and learn from it by keeping copious notes of dates and what happened!
E

 

[pargyle]

Give up beekeeping and take up hang gliding

Oh dear .....

 

[irishguy]

Virgin queens won't lay until they've mated ... it could be up to 3 weeks or more before you see eggs so .. that will be middle August earliest ... then think of the time from egg to forager bees ... what do you hope to achieve with these virgins ?

If you want a viable hive from all of these virgins you would be better getting your hands on a mated and laying queen NOW and combining the lot ... more chance of them building to a size that they will overwinter. At the moment it's going nowhere ...

Sorry .... Is this a wind up ? You've surely learnt something on here over the last two years ?

Yes I know it can take up to 3 weeks, this is now 4 weeks and still no sign of eggs.

 

[irishguy]

Give up beekeeping and take up hang gliding

If my handgliding is as eventful as my beekeeping, I don't think I'll be in the air thatlong lol

 

[Hawklord]

What's their temprament like? Are there any polished cells? Do you have a frame of eggs you could give them? It also depends on colony size as to how soon a queen comes into lay.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes I know it can take up to 3 weeks,

3 weeks or more before you see eggs so

....is more like it

Had one this year didn't lay until around day 37 - now on five frames and going like a train.

Leave them.... See what happens......and learn from it by keeping copious notes of dates and what happened!
E

 

[pargyle]

Yes I know it can take up to 3 weeks, this is now 4 weeks and still no sign of eggs.

So ... You can answer your own question if you think about the dates and time line ...these colonies will be destined to die over winter if you can't get them to build up to an optimum size over the next month or so. I understand from other Irish beekeepers that your season is largely over by the beginning of September (Unless you have a lot of ivy nearby ?) in which case there just is not enough time to get enough foraging bees out and about, comb drawn and stores coming in ... you will be throwing buckets of syrup at them to build them up pre-winter and there's no guarantee even then that they will be viable or even of a colony size that could overwinter without a lot of TLC. Certainly not in a full size box ... and it sounds as though you have already put them in a full size hive ?

Get a mated queen NOW ... combine the lot and you might have a really nice size colony to overwinter.

 

[Dishmop]

I have a new queen in my obs hive...She emerged on the 14th July. I have seen her going thro the motions of laying but so far I cant see any eggs....Not to say they arent there, but just that I cant see them if they are.

 

[oliver90owner]

As an aside virgin queens do lay, although they are clearly useless.

 

[midnight sun]

As an aside virgin queens do lay, although they are clearly useless.

Never would have guessed that!. You learn something every day on here. Would the eggs become drones RAB, (as they would be haploid), or would the eggs just fail to develop?

 

[Tonyatcwfarm]

Are your colonies definitely Q-
Surely to confirm is your first course of action
Get a test frame
It's this very senario that it is recommended to have 2 colonies
I would contact the person that helped/caused you to go from a 2 hive owner to a 3 q-/+ colonies to help you sort out the mess you are in
You need to get this issue sorted ASAP
Winter is only around the corner

 

[pargyle]

There's something here we don't know ?

8th July your post:
"I have a nuc now with no frames. Its a swarmed queen with handful of bees. She's starting to lay now thou and has some brood. Will this nuc build up in time for winter ? "

Also on 8th July you post:

"One of my hives swarmed about the 18th june and the other was about to swarm on the 21st June but did swarm on the 22nd after we done an AS with the hive(we missed some Queen cells). I managed to find her and put her into a nuc box because she was clipped.

I was left with 4 hives(if I can even call them hives now after splitting) with virgin queens and 1 queen in the nuc box. The virgin queens hatched sometime between the 23-25th June seeing as the closed queen cells where ready to hatch.

On the 29th June I opened up the hives and found more queen cells ready to hatch in the 4 hives but called another beekeeper to come and take away. When checking the hives we couldn't find the virgin queens, we closes the boxes and I haven't been near them since that date.

I was out yesterday having a look at the entrance to see how their getting on. There's lots if activity in 3 of the hives and one is very quiet. Also lookes inside the nuc box and noticed that the queen is laying and there's some larvae and capped brood, not that much thou.

Seeing as my virgin queens hatched around the 23-25th June, am I OK to inspect the hive to see how its getting on.

I also bought another full hive on Sunday but I'm abit worries about it after opening it up last night to find no queen or no eggs. This hive was 2 brood boxes with dummy board in bottom brood. In this box, it had brood, honey\pollen and larva. There was one frame still needing drawn out in this box but in the other frames, they where very light. Lots of empty space for laying or even to store honey etc... In 2nd brood box, there was 1 and half full drawn frame of honey but not capped. Also one super box full with frames of old drawn out wax but bees haven't touched this yet. I'm near sure there was an AS done with this hive if I remember correctly. What I notice about this hive is it doesn't have the bees in it I was expecting. Not one frame was completely full with bees. When I bought it, the beekeeper said he hadn't checked it in a week so I'm wondering had it swarmed because there's defo no eggs. "

So ... How many hives/colonies have you got at present ? What is their history (in simple terms please) ?

Have you got ANY hives that have a laying queen with eggs and BIAS ?

Do you know what a test frame is now ?

You certainly need to do something (and soon) to get at least one of your hives (and preferably two) into the sort of condition where they can finish the season and build up ready for winter. I think Finman told you some weeks ago that trying to overwinter 2 frame colonies is, for a beginner, very difficult but you seem to be heading in this direction ?

Do you have a plan of any sort that you can share with us ?

I'm not being critical - I feel almost sorry for you at this stage and it's clear you don't have much in the way of a mentor over there ... give us all the information you can and someone on here will be able to suggest a plan to get you into a state where you have some chance of success and one that several people may agree on.

Although ... there's a few that might agree with JBM about a safer hobby like hang gliding !

 

[irishguy]

There's something here we don't know ?

8th July your post:
"I have a nuc now with no frames. Its a swarmed queen with handful of bees. She's starting to lay now thou and has some brood. Will this nuc build up in time for winter ? "

Also on 8th July you post:

"One of my hives swarmed about the 18th june and the other was about to swarm on the 21st June but did swarm on the 22nd after we done an AS with the hive(we missed some Queen cells). I managed to find her and put her into a nuc box because she was clipped.

I was left with 4 hives(if I can even call them hives now after splitting) with virgin queens and 1 queen in the nuc box. The virgin queens hatched sometime between the 23-25th June seeing as the closed queen cells where ready to hatch.

On the 29th June I opened up the hives and found more queen cells ready to hatch in the 4 hives but called another beekeeper to come and take away. When checking the hives we couldn't find the virgin queens, we closes the boxes and I haven't been near them since that date.

I was out yesterday having a look at the entrance to see how their getting on. There's lots if activity in 3 of the hives and one is very quiet. Also lookes inside the nuc box and noticed that the queen is laying and there's some larvae and capped brood, not that much thou.

Seeing as my virgin queens hatched around the 23-25th June, am I OK to inspect the hive to see how its getting on.

I also bought another full hive on Sunday but I'm abit worries about it after opening it up last night to find no queen or no eggs. This hive was 2 brood boxes with dummy board in bottom brood. In this box, it had brood, honey\pollen and larva. There was one frame still needing drawn out in this box but in the other frames, they where very light. Lots of empty space for laying or even to store honey etc... In 2nd brood box, there was 1 and half full drawn frame of honey but not capped. Also one super box full with frames of old drawn out wax but bees haven't touched this yet. I'm near sure there was an AS done with this hive if I remember correctly. What I notice about this hive is it doesn't have the bees in it I was expecting. Not one frame was completely full with bees. When I bought it, the beekeeper said he hadn't checked it in a week so I'm wondering had it swarmed because there's defo no eggs. "

So ... How many hives/colonies have you got at present ? What is their history (in simple terms please) ?

Have you got ANY hives that have a laying queen with eggs and BIAS ?

Do you know what a test frame is now ?

You certainly need to do something (and soon) to get at least one of your hives (and preferably two) into the sort of condition where they can finish the season and build up ready for winter. I think Finman told you some weeks ago that trying to overwinter 2 frame colonies is, for a beginner, very difficult but you seem to be heading in this direction ?

Do you have a plan of any sort that you can share with us ?

I'm not being critical - I feel almost sorry for you at this stage and it's clear you don't have much in the way of a mentor over there ... give us all the information you can and someone on here will be able to suggest a plan to get you into a state where you have some chance of success and one that several people may agree on.

Although ... there's a few that might agree with JBM about a safer hobby like hang gliding !

Will give a more detailed reply after I've done an inspection today but basicly, I started with 2 overwintered nucs(as advised on here!). They where building up nicely but I didn't put a super on top and they both started producing QCs and swarmed( my misses was in having 4th child so I was mad busy at this time)., both queens where clipped. One swarmed , queen died and bees went back to hive and the other was ready to swarm so we done an AS.
I now had 4 hive boxes with a mixture of full frames to empty ones with 1 closed and open QCs after taking rest away). Next day the AS hive swarmed!( missed a QC )Found the swarm(small) and put into a nuc box. Now I had 4 hive boxes with brood, eggs and honey with 1 open and closed (ready to open)QCs on the 22nd june. Cells opened around the 23-27th june but just last week, only 1 hive box had a laying queen(larvae and eggs). The other virgin queens either are missing or haven't mated. The nuc box queen is laying but there ain't lots of bees or places to lay.

I was also given a cast that swarmed from a nuc yesterday with a virgin Queen. I put it into a hive with 5 frames with foundation and insulated the left over empty space.

I'm now scratching my head about what to do next!

 

[enrico]

Most of this comes from lack of room and management. I understand why so put it down to learning! Make sure they are queenless and start combining to get as many strong hives with a queen as possible
E

 

[pargyle]

I'm now scratching my head about what to do next!

You and me as well .. I'm still a little confused about what hives you have - from the sounds of it:

Hive 1 - A full size hive with a small caste swarm with a virgin at the head.
Hive 2 - A Nucleus with a laying queen but she's not laying very well and for reasons we don't know has not got much space to lay in.
Hive 3 - A full size hive with a laying queen and BIAS
Hive 4 - A full size hive which you think is queenless.
Hive 5 - A nucleus which you created from one your hives that swarmed (not sure if this is a separate Nuc or is the Nuc at Hive 2 above.)

If you could keep your replies to something like the above format, forget the irrelevant comments then perhaps someone is going to be able to suggest the best course of action.

Paint some numbers on your hives and refer to them by number (and stay consistent) we might have a chance of understanding what colonies you have.

Perhaps, once you get back on here tonight you could give us a clearer picture of the present situation and someone will be able to advise the best course of action.

In round terms what I would be looking at it is establishing which colonies are definitely queenless (with a test frame). Then combining the stronger of your colonies with laying queens with the ones that are queenless and/or those headed up with virgins who you think may not have mated successfully (I would be surprised, this year, if there were any virgins that DIDN'T get mated the weather has been so good).

 

[Dishmop]

I have a new queen in my obs hive...She emerged on the 14th July. I have seen her going thro the motions of laying but so far I cant see any eggs....Not to say they arent there, but just that I cant see them if they are.

First sign of larva today.

 

[oliver90owner]

Never would have guessed that!.

Is this a wind up, too?

I was only responding to Pargyles post #2 or 3?, for the benefit of the OP, where he indicated that virgins don't lay until they are mated. Just what did you think happened if a virgin did not get mated?