What to do with honey super while treating with Apivar.

[DaveG23]

You could perhaps leave the super for the six weeks above a closed crown board. It will benefit somewhat from the colony's heat, and will probably be less likely to crystallise.

 

[Patrick1]

I also leave one super of honey on each colony for the bees, that means NOT spinning it and NOT putting it back wet, which I do with the others. The super immediately above brood always remains the colony’s super. My understanding is that it is only honey intended for humans that should be removed. After all the honey stored in the brood box is still there. I personally use MAQS at this time of year as they only require a week and can be used with supers on.

The problem with that idea is the bees do not read the books, they will move stores around the hive depending on need, it would be unsafe to assume that no contaminated honey would be in a subsequent years harvest.

 

[Patrick1]

Surly to leave food for the bees,

Surly not, take the valuable honey off and feed with the less exspencive syrups, better still add a brood box instead of a super, they will draw beautiful comb for next year's brood area.

 

[Woodland bees]

The problem with that idea is the bees do not read the books, they will move stores around the hive depending on need, it would be unsafe to assume that no contaminated honey would be in a subsequent years harvest.

Surely that can also happen if you only have a brood box? So, if you feed syrup then that can be moved into a super and contaminate your honey if any is left in spring?

Surly not, take the valuable honey off and feed with the less exspencive syrups, better still add a brood box instead of a super, they will draw beautiful comb for next year's brood area.

That assumes you're selling the honey. If you're not then it can cost more to feed syrups etc.

Personally I've found my colonies seem to overwinter better and build up better in spring if I leave a super of their own stores on over winter. I think it balances out.

I'm only a beginner and I may well change what I do as I get more experience.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Surely that can also happen if you only have a brood box?

Where do they move it to? come spring, there would be very little stores left, just a small amount of brood and a small colony which will then expend every ounce of energy (and remaining stores) expanding to full summer strength, a thinking beekeeper will not be adding a super until they see seven or eight frames full of brood, by that time, winter stores will be long gone, unlike if there was a super full of the stuff on top.

 

[Woodland bees]

That's not quite what I've found. The hives that I've over wintered just on a double brood can have frames of stores left well into late spring and need a super as they've built up well and are bringing in fresh nectar.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's not quite what I've found. The hives that I've over wintered just on a double brood can have frames of stores left well into late spring and need a super as they've built up well and are bringing in fresh nectar.

Time to manage the colony then - take out the frames of stores and keep them for feeding nucs or emergency June feeding.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's not quite what I've found. The hives that I've over wintered just on a double brood can have frames of stores left well into late spring and need a super as they've built up well and are bringing in fresh nectar.

My poly hives often have a couple of frames solid with syrup in the spring. They come out and are replaced with drawn comb.

 

[Fiona in South View]

The problem with that idea is the bees do not read the books, they will move stores around the hive depending on need, it would be unsafe to assume that no contaminated honey would be in a subsequent years harvest.

Good point, thanks. I shall continue to treat with MAQS in the autumn. How does this apply to sugar syrup stores? Presumably that also gets spread around and can contaminate nectar honey?

 

[Patrick1]

Where do they move it to? come spring, there would be very little stores left, just a small amount of brood and a small colony which will then expend every ounce of energy (and remaining stores) expanding to full summer strength, a thinking beekeeper will not be adding a super until they see seven or eight frames full of brood, by that time, winter stores will be long gone, unlike if there was a super full of the stuff on top.

This is what I have been doing for nearly 20 years :- end of August ish, after taking all my supers off I add a brood box with with foundation above the brood area no Q/ex, I then feed heavily with syrup, this achieves several things that work for me, firstly they have no need to collect Ivy that crystallizes, for me more importantly the brood will be in the middle of the lower brood box, over the winter they will move one way or the other to a side wall , ( starvation time for a lot of colony) having run out of stores they move up to the box above, warmer and with stores. early spring I take away the bottom box for cleaning etc leaving the brood in a relatively clean new area.

 

[Patrick1]

Good point, thanks. I shall continue to treat with MAQS in the autumn. How does this apply to sugar syrup stores? Presumably that also gets spread around and can contaminate nectar honey?

Syrup does get spread around, don't forget the bees add enzymes and that process will convert most sugars to honey, it would be naive not to think that some beekeepers do not extract from the brood area, a really bad thing to do.

 

[Swarm]

That's not quite what I've found. The hives that I've over wintered just on a double brood can have frames of stores left well into late spring and need a super as they've built up well and are bringing in fresh nectar.

You can't compare double brood with single. You are finding combs still full of stores because your bees don't require 22 frames. Try dummying the space down so they have 16 or 18, ample for Winter stores.
I've seen frames like you describe in peoples hives, been there for a few years and not achieving much.

 

[Horatio]

This is what I have been doing for nearly 20 years :- end of August ish, after taking all my supers off I add a brood box with with foundation above the brood area no Q/ex, I then feed heavily with syrup, this achieves several things that work for me, firstly they have no need to collect Ivy that crystallizes, for me more importantly the brood will be in the middle of the lower brood box, over the winter they will move one way or the other to a side wall , ( starvation time for a lot of colony) having run out of stores they move up to the box above, warmer and with stores. early spring I take away the bottom box for cleaning etc leaving the brood in a relatively clean new area.

I like the sound of being able to take away the bottom box for cleaning. When do you treat for varroa? Before or after placing the new brood box? I currently use fondant for feeding rather than syrup as it seems less messy. Would the bees draw out the foundation with just fondant do you think? I’ve assumed leaving a super of honey would mean there’d be no need to feed, unless perhaps we have a harsh spring.

 

[Horatio]

I also leave one super of honey on each colony for the bees, that means NOT spinning it and NOT putting it back wet, which I do with the others. The super immediately above brood always remains the colony’s super. My understanding is that it is only honey intended for humans that should be removed. After all the honey stored in the brood box is still there. I personally use MAQS at this time of year as they only require a week and can be used with supers on.

I think I am going to try MAQS as it seems they will solve my problems of timing, extracting, feeding etc. I always thought you had to buy for ten hives but I must be mistaken as I see it’s possible to buy for two. While I’m waiting for them to arrive (it’s too hot for them anyway and too hot for me too) I can use the time when it’s cooler to see if the super of uncapped honey has now been capped.

 

[Vortex]

You could perhaps leave the super for the six weeks above a closed crown board. It will benefit somewhat from the colony's heat, and will probably be less likely to crystallise.

It doesn't matter to the bees whether its crystallised or not .. they will use it just the same either way.
If you put it above the crown board there is still the potential of contamination, especially with thymol based treatments.
Just take it off (remembering to label it so you can identify which super goes where), put a sheet of ply top and bottom, and leave it in a stack. when you've finished your treatments just put it back on the hive you removed it from. Since you'll be taking your QXs off when you treat you won't have to remember to do it when you put the supers back

 

[Madge]

It doesn't matter to the bees whether its crystallised or not .. they will use it just the same either way.
If you put it above the crown board there is still the potential of contamination, especially with thymol based treatments.

Horatio enquired about ApiVar, and Apivar's effectiveness depends on bees moving over the strips and dispersing the active ingredient that way. I can't see how it will reach frames above the crown board.

I agree and know bees will use crystallised honey - but not being crystallised would be easier for them (that is, if it actually helped - I said 'probably'). Storing the frames above the crown board is mainly a space-saving solution.

 

[Patrick1]

I like the sound of being able to take away the bottom box for cleaning. When do you treat for varroa? Before or after placing the new brood box? I currently use fondant for feeding rather than syrup as it seems less messy. Would the bees draw out the foundation with just fondant do you think? I’ve assumed leaving a super of honey would mean there’d be no need to feed, unless perhaps we have a harsh spring.

Hi, I treat first. no point in putting good equipment on a hive doing nothing, once you know what is happening in the hive you can use the double brood box system if appropriate.
As for feeding I prefer to use syrups for as long as possible, they take it down quicker no water required, you want them to use the syrup as quickly as possible. For me ideally, not collecting the ivy necta.
The problem with just leaving a super on is that firstly the bees have to break cluster to get to it and if it is something like ivy it sets like concrete then they will need water as well, the down side of syrup feeding too late in the season ( late Jan/Feb ) is dysentery
Know your bees, knowledge is everything.

 

[Patrick1]

Good point, thanks. I shall continue to treat with MAQS in the autumn. How does this apply to sugar syrup stores? Presumably that also gets spread around and can contaminate nectar honey?

MAQS is one of the few products that can be used with supers on, formic acid is a naturally occuring acid in all forms of life.
MAQS is approved for use on a double Langstroth brood box style hives, 20 frames of brood sometimes, before using it for the first time you should consider carefully if it is the most suitable treatment for your hive and the precautions needed

 

[Horatio]

MAQS is one of the few products that can be used with supers on, formic acid is a naturally occuring acid in all forms of life.
MAQS is approved for use on a double Langstroth brood box style hives, 20 frames of brood sometimes, before using it for the first time you should consider carefully if it is the most suitable treatment for your hive and the precautions needed

I have two WBCs so no way are there 20 frames of brood. I've already bought the MAQS, I'm unsure now whether to proceed with the them, I was planning on waiting until it's a little cooler. I've researched on the internet but I cannot find any information regarding their use and WBCs, with their smaller brook box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have two WBCs so no way are there 20 frames of brood. I've already bought the MAQS, I'm unsure now whether to proceed with the them, I was planning on waiting until it's a little cooler. I've researched on the internet but I cannot find any information regarding their use and WBCs, with their smaller brook box.

Although the instructions tell you to use two strips per hive, this was written for the larder Dadant type boxes, since then, the manufacturers have realised that for the smaller national hive, one strip is ample, but, unfortunately as the original licence was granted for a two strip dose, the manufacturer cannot amend the instructions unless they go through the whole expense of re-licencing.

Basically, follow the instructions but use one strip not two.