What to do with a hive that has just swarmed?

[bobba]

I have a hive that swarmed, I got the swarm and have them in another box.

I am now worried my original hive is prepping another swam. I can see lots of bees hanging around on the bottom mesh and near the door. I noticed this behavior a few days before the last swarm.

I have not properly gone through the box since last weekend (9 days ago). I had a quick look this weekend just to pinch a frame to put in the swarm box, but was in a hurry and did not fully inspect.

So what steps should I take to prevent further swarming?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How long ago did they swarm?
When they swarm they leave behind a number of queen cells and if you do nothing you can expect more and more swarming
Reduce the remaining queen cells to one open one with a fat larva floating in royal jelly. Select your cell, mark the frame and brush the bees off to make sure there are no more. Shake the bees off the other frames and destroy the queen cells. Go back in a few days to make sure the bees haven't made any more.
Have a read here. It's an excellent publication and should be in every beginner's library
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/There-Are-Queen-Cells-In-My-Hive-WBKA-WAG.pdf


Ahhh it sounds like you need to go to step 7 in Wally's booklet.
If you haven't been in for 9 days you are likely to have virgins emerging. You need to open up and let EVERY single one out. The bees will sort out the confusion and hopefully not swarm.....you might rescue the situation

 

[thedozzer]

its the advice we followed with ours and worked beautifully, the only thing we were told different was to leave 2 good QC's just in case one failed.

Not sure you will get to pick your favourite QC if you have left it to long since they swarmed as they could all be sealed and wont have any new eggs to make new ones.

we are only in our first full year so what we did may not be the best way.

 

[bobba]

Thanks Erichalfbee

That is exactly what I needed to know.

They swarmed on Saturday afternoon, its now Monday night.

I have to decide if I should get up and inspect before work tmr, or wait until after work at 5pm.......hummmm

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks Erichalfbee

That is exactly what I needed to know.

They swarmed on Saturday afternoon, its now Monday night.

I have to decide if I should get up and inspect before work tmr, or wait until after work at 5pm.......hummmm

If you inspect before work, you will probably rush - and not do a thorough job, do it after work, if they only swarmed Saturday afternoon, you should be OK - just remember that by now, a lot of the open QC's will be poor(ish) emergency Queen cells, so select your 'Keeper' carefully

 

[bobba]

If you inspect before work, you will probably rush - and not do a thorough job, do it after work, if they only swarmed Saturday afternoon, you should be OK - just remember that by now, a lot of the open QC's will be poor(ish) emergency Queen cells, so select your 'Keeper' carefully

You seem to know me.... I am not a morning person so was hoping someone would say to wait lol.

I do not think there are many queen cells in there. The original hive was completely honey bound on the last inspection. In fact I could not see any eggs or uncapped brood. And only a limited amount of capped brood. And did not see the queen. I did see a single queen cup.

When I took the frame out on Sunday to put in the swarm hive, I went through 5 frames in the original hive, there were no queen cells, and it was only when I got to the 5th frame I found a few capped brood. There were no eggs or uncapped brood.

I am pretty sure the swarm that came out was a primary swarm. It was about the size of a football, possibly a bit bigger! My misses is off work at the moment so would have noticed if an even bigger swarm had emerged. However when transferring the swarm to the new hive, I saw a large number of bees go into the original hive in the confusion.

The original hive had a super of foundation put on 2 weeks ago. The bees have hardly touched it. I took off the queen excluder after they swarmed to give them more space.

I have the plan now, Thanks everyone.

So fingers crossed until after work.....

 

[beeno]

Hi Bobba, If you don't have any larvae and only a little capped brood it could be that what you witnessed was not the prime swarm, but a cast and it could then be more to come!

 

[bobba]

I am fairly sure this was the 1st swarm. I am sure someone would have noticed the commotion and told me. My swarm is the talk of the street at the moment lol. Also I can see a clear reduction in population after this swarm. Before the box was getting more packed with bees every week. But I am not 100% sure this was the 1st swarm....

anyway...

I have just finished the inspection

There were 5 play cups - all empty.

And a single emerged queen cell.

No eggs, capped or uncapped brood or queen seen!


Is it possible they could be queen-less? my logic tells me that surely a swam would not leave a hive and leave the hive queen-less.

But..is it possible that the bees can leave before a new queen emerges, then a noob bee keeper like me will kill the queen cell leaving them queen-less?

below is a time line of events, hopefully this will aid in understanding my situation:

29/06/2019 found empty queen cell in supercedure position - killed it. Saw eggs and brood IAS but no queen.

07/07/2019, I inspected the hive, I saw the queen that day, but found a capped swam cell and killed it. I added a super of foundation and QE too.

13/07/2019 I inspected the hive - on this day I could see no eggs, queen or uncapped brood. I saw one queen cell under construction, but could not get a clear view inside, I left this one alone. The hive was also pretty much completely honey bound.

20/07/2019 the hive swarmed!

Thanks as usual for all the help.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am fairly sure this was the 1st swarm. I am sure someone would have noticed the commotion and told me. My swarm is the talk of the street at the moment lol. Also I can see a clear reduction in population after this swarm. Before the box was getting more packed with bees every week. But I am not 100% sure this was the 1st swarm....

anyway...

I have just finished the inspection

There were 5 play cups - all empty.

And a single emerged queen cell.

No eggs, capped or uncapped brood or queen seen!


Is it possible they could be queen-less? my logic tells me that surely a swam would not leave a hive and leave the hive queen-less.

But..is it possible that the bees can leave before a new queen emerges, then a noob bee keeper like me will kill the queen cell leaving them queen-less?

below is a time line of events, hopefully this will aid in understanding my situation:

29/06/2019 found empty queen cell in supercedure position - killed it. Saw eggs and brood IAS but no queen.

07/07/2019, I inspected the hive, I saw the queen that day, but found a capped swam cell and killed it. I added a super of foundation and QE too.

13/07/2019 I inspected the hive - on this day I could see no eggs, queen or uncapped brood. I saw one queen cell under construction, but could not get a clear view inside, I left this one alone. The hive was also pretty much completely honey bound.

20/07/2019 the hive swarmed!

Thanks as usual for all the help.

Hives don't really look depleted after a prime swarm leaves because there is plenty of emerging brood and when you look there is a huge workforce out foraging.
I suspect your Prime swarm left on or about 7th July
Your replacement queen swarmed with no room in the brood box
I would put in a test frame

 

[bobba]

By a test frame, I assume you mean one with some eggs and young brood.

The problem is I don't have one!

So I guess I will have to wait and hopefully my swarm will make one.

I guess the way I will know if this was the first swarm will be to inspect the hive containing the captured swarm in and see if there is a marked queen in there. I did not see a marked queen when I put the swarm in the hive.

I have a QE on the bottom of the swarm have at the moment. Could this stop a virgin queen going out to mate, or can a virgin fit through one?

Thanks as always.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

A virgin should not be able to get through a queen excluder. After the swarm has been there for a couple of days, it should stay and you can remove the excluder from underneath to let the queen fly and mate if she is a virgin. If it's the original mated queen, then she should be laying in 2 - 4 days.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it's the original mated queen, then she should be laying in 2 - 4 days.

Even sooner is common.
I have moved Prime swarms from A bait hive six hours after they arrived to see eggs in newly drawn comb

 

[bobba]

I have taken the QE off the swarm hive, and OA vaped both hives.

I am having some wisdom teeth pulled tmr , so probably wont feel like opening any hives for a few days.

So when I am up for it, I will inspect both hives, and if the original hive still looks queen-less I will see if I can get a test frame from the swarm hive.

So I think I have the next stage all planned out.

So big thanks for helping me out on this one everyone.