What to do about Nosema?

[oliver90owner]

For PINKNEES

Don't think so. This is thymolated syrup for nosema control.

 

[nemphlar]

Good informative thread thanks but is this effective against cerana? which has almost cleaned me out this year. Standard nosema has been more of an inconvenience over the years during tmes of stress

 

[beren]

I want to thank hivemaker for his excellent recipe. Im putting it into action straight away

 

[Arfermo]

Sodium metabysulphate for syrup

Having read all this thread, I am wondering if there might be a simpler method to stop syrup fermenting - and that is is to add sodium metabysulphate (crushed Campden tablet) as I do as a wine preservative and fermentation limiter. Any thoughts by the technocrats on this forum as to what the bees might think?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Any thoughts by the technocrats on this forum as to what the bees might think?

Do some of your own trials, by feeding it to your bees,and let us know if it helps with nosema control.

 

[Hombre]

I seem to think that metabisulphide (campden) tablets in solution (water) break down to sulphide(?) gas and water fairly quickly when open to the air.

I don't think that they would be much cop on a persistence basis, even if it could be proven that the gas was harmless to the bees and able to clobber varroa mites.

I think that it's a non-starter, but don't let me stop you experimenting and reporting back your findings.

 

[Arfermo]

The context in which I stuck my comments in this thread was in regard to keeping syrup in good nick until it is to be used. As regards Nosema, as you know there is not much point in treating for something that isn't necessarily a problem as that is where inbuilt resistance can arise - unlike in human health where we innoculate "just in case" without necessarily always knowing the risk that is being treated. If Nosema is your concern Hivemaker, it would seems better imho to squish a few bee abdomens and look under a microscope and if Nosema is sufficiently demonstrated, treat with fumidil-b rather than deluge the colonies with thymol and the spirit solvent used to dissolve it in syrup every time feed is added. Disagree if you wish - that is only my view. Can we now return to the thrust of my original thought about Campden tablets for keeping bee syrup in good fettle - good idea, bad idea. Anybody tried it ? Perhaps we need a new thread?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Perhaps we need a new thread?

Good idea,as this one is about nosema.

 

[drstitson]

"rather than deluge the colonies with thymol and the spirit solvent used to dissolve it in syrup every time feed is added. "

how 40 microilitres alcohol per litre can be described as a "deluge" is beyond me.

AFAIK the thymol has multiple beneficial features, amongst which is nosema control.

 

[Norton]

As regards Nosema, as you know there is not much point in treating for something that isn't necessarily a problem as that is where inbuilt resistance can arise - unlike in human health where we innoculate "just in case" without necessarily always knowing the risk that is being treated. If Nosema is your concern Hivemaker, it would seems better imho to squish a few bee abdomens and look under a microscope and if Nosema is sufficiently demonstrated, treat with fumidil-b rather than deluge the colonies with thymol and the spirit solvent used to dissolve it in syrup every time feed is added. Disagree if you wish - that is only my view. Can we now return to the thrust of my original thought about Campden tablets for keeping bee syrup in good fettle - good idea, bad idea. Anybody tried it ? Perhaps we need a new thread?

I CAN tell you now that you have Nosema in your colonies. It is present in all colonies and under certain conditions can be a BIG problem. Better "prevention than cure"" after it has caused a whole lot of damage - don't you think?
However if you wish to treat with Fumidil B from one of the commercial companies rather than accept a tried treatment from one of our members then go ahead - pay the price!

 

[Emoryy]

Thymol syrup dosage

Hi all!

I just want to ask, that how often and for how long do you need to give the thymolated syrup to the bees?

I could find a lot of recipes and descriptions on the Internet for making the syrup itself (both with emulsification and without), but practically no instructions for the actual dosage during autumn feeding.

So do you give only the thymolated syrup, and every occasion/day you feed? Or just every few days, and you give normal syrup other times?

Thanks!

(Asking this question was the primary reason for me to register here. And sorry for occasional bad English, as it's not my primary language.)

 

[Hombre]

How often and for how long do you need to give the thymolated syrup to the bees?

So do you give only the thymolated syrup, and every occasion/day you feed? Or just every few days, and you give normal syrup other times?

Hello Emoryy, Welcome to the forum.
When I start to give the bees their autumn feed, all the syrup that I give to each colony is thymolated until the hives are up to winter weight and I don't require to feed any more.

Once the temperature falls feeding stops. Any additional over winter feeding in late December and January would be fondant. In the spring stimulative feeding would contain a minimal amount of thymol, only enough to prevent fermentation of the syrup.

I also add a drop or two of lemongrass essential oil to each of my 10 litre barrels.

I hope that this answers your question satisfactorily.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But without the lemongrass

 

[Emoryy]

When I start to give the bees their autumn feed, all the syrup that I give to each colony is thymolated until the hives are up to winter weight and I don't require to feed any more.

Thanks for answering!

So the reason that I didn't find any info about dosage, that basically you feed only with thymolized syrup (in the autumn).

In this case another question comes up.
Different hives can require different amount of feeding based on their strength, or already storaged food. So what can be the minimum amount of thymolized syrup that can protect a colony against nosema c.? And on the other hand, what is the maximum amount (if there is) that doesn't cause problems yet?

 

[oliver90owner]

And on the other hand, what is the maximum amount (if there is) that doesn't cause problems yet?

As long as it does not contaminate next year's honey crop.

In other words it needs to be all gone in the spring.

There are s lot on here who would find that difficult - they insist on feeding fondant, when unnecessary, during the winter and then, when the brood box is full of thymolised syrup in the spring and the bees are congested, often to the point of swarming, they fit a super and hope. Not clever.

 

[MuswellMetro]

And on the other hand, what is the maximum amount (if there is) that doesn't cause problems yet?

As long as it does not contaminate next year's honey crop.

In other words it needs to be all gone in the spring.

There are s lot on here who would find that difficult - they insist on feeding fondant, when unnecessary, during the winter and then, when the brood box is full of thymolised syrup in the spring and the bees are congested, often to the point of swarming, they fit a super and hope. Not clever.

I think he's talking about me LOL

yep, it is very diffuclt to get your head around that a cold winter means the bees eat less food as they are tight in cluster and less active

i would admit that in london the cold December 2011 had me slapping on the fondant when i did not need to....see us soft southerners not use to the cold..it was an instinctive reaction but they used up more stores in the mild next two months than they did in December

moral:- learn to heft

 

[Tom Bick]

Hi all!

I just want to ask, that how often and for how long do you need to give the thymolated syrup to the bees?

I could find a lot of recipes and descriptions on the Internet for making the syrup itself (both with emulsification and without), but practically no instructions for the actual dosage during autumn feeding.

So do you give only the thymolated syrup, and every occasion/day you feed? Or just every few days, and you give normal syrup other times?Thanks!

(Asking this question was the primary reason for me to register here. And sorry for occasional bad English, as it's not my primary language.)

I started with the thymol mix last year and will continue this year and only intend to feed each hive one gallon or approx 5L reasonably late.

I don’t know if this is what others do but feels right to me. I also hope that this will be the only feeding required this year.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I started with the thymol mix last year and will continue this year and only intend to feed each hive one gallon or approx 5L reasonably late.

I don’t know if this is what others do but feels right to me. I also hope that this will be the only feeding required this year.

is that on the basis of last in ,first out with the thymol syrup

one of mine is heavily infected AGAIN, so was going to drench with nozevit then feed thymol syrup

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes MM the last syrup in the hive and hoped to be one of the first eaten. Also as it may be late the syrup will not ferment.

I don’t have or it seems no problem with Nosema I could easily test and may just do as an exercise but all hives look healthy.

The Thymol in the syrup from what I have read does have an effect on effected colonies but it is limited and comes into its own as a preventative treatment and is thought to work by blocking the Nosema spores developing into Nosema.

I may be wrong but I think I read somewhere perhaps on this forum that with colonies with a case of Nosema a good thing to try is to get a water spray and spray each comb and bees with the syrup and thymol. I guess the thinking is the bees clean themselves and then get a fast treatment sap.

Good luck hope its just an isolated case.

 

[Greggorio]

Emulsified thymol pre mix.

30g thymol crystals placed in honey jar,add 5ml of isopropyl alcohol to the crystals,place jar into a water bath of boiling water to speed up the dissolving process.
In another jar pour in 140 ml of boiling water and add 1 teaspoon of lecithin granules,

will it last just as long without the alcohol content? I'm no expert but I'm assuming you've used water because alcohol does not need an emulsifier or it would not work as such?