October swarm

[Erichalfbee]

Swarm in October?

Bees absconded from a dire situation.
The few remaining after the onslaught have left in a desperate attempt to save the colony

 

[Sutty]

Update on this:
Wasp numbers much reduced by exterminating a nearby nest but a few are still getting in.
Had a very quick look out the 2 hives that are being attacked, saw the Q in the smaller one, but not the larger, though she may be there, there's a decent number of bees.
Hard to think either is the source of the swarm!
United the swarm with the stronger hive using air freshener, at least there will be more bees to repel the wasps!
The smaller one I plan to unite with a nearby hive as soon as I get a waspbane to put in its place.

 

[Paulypaul]

I do like seeing updates. Thanks for that.

 

[Ian123]

Bees absconded from a dire situation.
The few remaining after the onslaught have left in a desperate attempt to save the colony

You can probably add some supercedures going wrong as well.

 

[ericbeaumont]

saw the Q in the smaller one, but not the larger, though she may be there... Hard to think either is the source of the swarm!

Well, it must have come from one of them, so uniting is a reasonable decision, though if you wanted more certainty you could have waited a few days and checked the larger colony for EQCs.

Tempted to nuc the smaller one and take it through winter?

 

[jimmiestan]

Could one reduce the "weak" BB to nuc size using alu taped xtratherm as thick as possible to leave maybe 6 frames well insulated for the winter? Easier to look after with fondant etc than a nuc [although our bee-delivery nucs only seem to be made of correx!]

 

[Erichalfbee]

Could one reduce the "weak" BB to nuc size using alu taped xtratherm as thick as possible to leave maybe 6 frames well insulated for the winter?

Yes

 

[Murox]

Could one reduce the "weak" BB to nuc size using alu taped xtratherm as thick as possible to leave maybe 6 frames well insulated for the winter? Easier to look after with fondant etc than a nuc [although our bee-delivery nucs only seem to be made of correx!]

Its something you can do if needs be. I have had done exactly that, but with seven frames in my case, with a small colony I requeened at the beginning of September. Had a look at them and topped up their syrup just before this current weather came in. They are doing fine in a poly hive with the entrance shut down to the width of my thumb and with extra insulation above.

 

[Sutty]

I could put them in a poly nuc, but I need to reduce colony numbers by uniting anyway. I had originally planned to have done it by now but was away for longer than expected.
Waspbane trap just arrived, though the number of wasps is now small.

 

[user 23149]

It seems unlikely to be an actual swarm in the traditional sense, I wonder if one of the hives being attacked felt the safest thing to do was leave? Have you found a queen?

 

[Sutty]

It seems unlikely to be an actual swarm in the traditional sense, I wonder if one of the hives being attacked felt the safest thing to do was leave? Have you found a queen?

I didn't look in the swarm for a queen, but they would be unlikely to stay put without one. One of the 2 hives being attacked definitely had a queen, I didn't see one in a quick look at the other hive but lots of bees were present so doesn't seem like they had absconded. Bit of a mystery, could even be a swarm/abscond from somewhere else

 

[Sutty]

Another update!
I've just examined the hive I had found 2 queens in before I went away. At that point I'd removed the new queen (as bee behaviour has turned very much worse with her offspring) and left the old queen. Today I found 4 emerged queen cells and no brood apart from a handful of emerging workers.
My best guess is they tried to supercede again and swarmed instead, what I found was probably a cast as it was fairly small.
So.... there is probably a virgin or recently mated queen in there (there are still drones around).
I was planning to unite the hive with its neighbour. Is there a risk of losing the laying queen in the other hive if I unite them and there is a virgin present?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. Very much so if she has free reign to both boxes
If you are uniting with newspaper and a QX then the two queens are kept apart I’m not sure. A better reply than mine will probably give you the answer.

 

[Sutty]

Yes. Very much so if she has free reign to both boxes
If you are uniting with newspaper and a QX then the two queens are kept apart I’m not sure. A better reply than mine will probably give you the answer.

That's what I thought, & why I haven't united, thanks!
I suppose I could sieve them through an excluder to remove the presumed queen, but probably better to leave them & see what happens.