What next - double brood 14 x 12 ?

[pargyle]

Today the weather was perfect so decided that today was the day ...

Had everything (I thought) ready, new hive on stand alongside the LDH, smoker going (although I never use it), cloth to cover the frames to keep them calm, several spare pairs of nitrile disposable gloves - I knew it was going to be messy - lots of containers with lids, water spray .. just about everything I could possibly need and some.

Anyway, lots of bees in the hive ... fairly well behaved. Made a bit of space removing a couple of frames of stores and a frame that just had about 40 capped drone cells on it and then started into the brood frames. Lots of capped brood .. three or four frames of it (filled both sides) with arcs of honey on the top and bottom. Unfortunately, where the hive has 2" of bee space at the bottom of the frames I had to cut the free comb off the bottom .. had a container ready but it was messy.

Then, next frame 2 capped queen cells on the bottom edge (Oh **** !). Eggs and larvae and some capped brood as well - checked the queen wasn't on it and removed this frame to the new hive. Next frame, another two capped queen cells, down the bottom at the side, more eggs and BIAS .. put that in the new hive after checking the queen wasn't there as well. Next frame three more capped queen cells so I took them down. No more queen cells after that but I could not see the queen although she's very elusive at the best of times. Took some of the frames of stores with bees and put them into the new box so I ended up with 8 frames in the new box, two frames of stores and the rest with BIAS and a fair amount of bees. Two of the frames now have queen cells on them in the new box.

Continued through the rest of the frames in the LDH .. didn't find the queen but as there were eggs in there I'm hopeful that she was still there - it's not really been swarming weather so - I think I might have got lucky and they have not swarmed - I was mucking about until well after 4.00pm so they certainly have not swarmed today.

But ... I now have a queen who is ready to swarm in the LDH, no queen cells, some frames of stores, BIAS and eggs in there - 11 frames altogether which includes a couple of empty frames and the drone cell frame from which I took out all the drone cells and scraped it back to the spine (there are drones in the hive and some more drone cells amongst the other brood).

I put it all back together and closed up as they were getting a little tetchy by this time - it had taken quite a long time.

So ... the plan now is to remove one of the frames with two queen cells from the new poly hive and put that with some bees and some stores and perhaps a frame of capped brood into a Nuc - that's my insurance policy.

Go through the LDH and see if I can locate the queen - if I can then she is going into the other new poly that is not yet in use with some frames of stores, some empty frames and as many bees as I can get in there. Any remaining frames in the LDH with brood on them get split between the other poly hive and the Nuc.

I end up with:

New Poly hive (A) has frame with 2 queen cells, stores and frames of brood.

Nuc has frame with 2 queen cells, stores and frames of brood, dummied down to 3 or 4 frames.

New Poly hive (B) has queen, stores, some empty frames and as many bees as I can get in there - but no brood. Hopefully, this hive will think they have swarmed and will get on with comb building - a couple of litres of 1:1 might help.

The LDH ends up empty and out of use and whatever flyers there are make their way to one or other of the three new hives.

It's not ideal but the best I can think of ... unless anyone has any better ideas ?

As the queen is in the LDH with no queen cells they should not swarm tomorrow so I have bought a little time for myself but it's going to be another fine day on Saturday so that looks likely for Stage 2 ...

I had a look through the other two hives I have as well .. the smaller one still plodding along - have built a bit of comb in the super at last and some uncapped honey in there - no queen cells.

The other hive had two uncapped queen cells (but only just uncapped - I could see big fat larvae in each of them) right bang in the middle of one frame of brood ... really big queen cells. There was a fairly erratic laying pattern in this hive so I'm hoping these are supercedure cells and they are hedging their bets with two rather than the usual just one (I could be wrong but that's the risk I have to take). So, I left them to get on with it. They had clearly been living off their stores as there was less honey in the supers than when I last looked so I removed one of the two supers and put all the uncapped honey frames into a single super - they still have room and I can easily put another super on if they finish capping the frames.

Pretty full on day ... I have a couple of lovely bits of uncapped honey in some new comb to go on my toast in the morning and a bucket full of wax to render down and the prospect of becoming a FIVE hive owner in the near future and a bit of a honey crop to look forward to with a bit of luck.

Oh ... and out of the fifty or so drone cells that I dragged the larvae out of only two had a mite in them ... even I was surprised - but really pleased.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Sounds good.

But ...

- it's not really been swarming weather so -

Oh really?

You should have told that to the swarm I collected this morning, the one that arrived at a bait hive in the rain!

 

[pargyle]

Sounds good.

But ...


Oh really?

You should have told that to the swarm I collected this morning, the one that arrived at a bait hive in the rain!

Yehhh ... there's always one bunch of nutters - mine were flying in 8 degrees and rain this morning but they were coming back in with pollen so I'm hopeful they are still there tomorrow morning ... when I've done shuffling frames tomorrow I'm also going to juggle the hives around a bit as there still seems to be a lot of bees in the LDH and not so many in the split - probably a sign that the queen is still in there and the fliers are being drawn to her. I can hope anyway ... !!

 

[countryman]

i go 2 std broods and a super just for the queen and 3 supers for the honey and no queen excluder

 

[pargyle]

Today was perfect, warm, slightly sunny, no wind .... Stage 2 - empty the rest of the bees out of the Long Deep Hive ... Hmmm ...

Seemed like a good idea at the time .. I figured about half an hour would see the job done .. made the mistake of telling SWMBO that I was going to play with the bees for half an hour and then I'd finish the work I started over the weekend in the front garden.

Lessons learned:

NEVER commit yourself to any sort of time scale when beekeeping.
Don't inspect your other colonies before you start a major manipulation.
If it's a BIG colony make sure your bee suit really IS bee proof.
What looks like a LOT of bees on 12 frames is a COLOSSAL amount of bees in the air.
A smoker CAN be useful ... it's even better if it stays lit.
A bee brush can also be useful .. if, never having used it, you can remember where it is.
Cutting free comb off the bottom of frames that has honey in it is messy ... a box and some means of hanging the frame above it would be a good idea, rather than trying to grip it in one sticky honey lubricated hand and cut it with the other.
When you have a bee inside your veil don't ask SWMBO to help ... it wasn't a problem until she did a Julia Bradbury on me ...
If you bend too far forwards with your glasses on with a sweaty nose they fall off .. inside your veil.
It's useful if you can keep your glasses where they have some benefit - one of those bungy straps I used to put on my glasses when I was sailing to stop them going over the side next time.
Three sets of nitrile gloves over the marigolds WILL stop the stings going through.
Try not to put another pair of nitriles over the top of ones that have honey on them - and bees trying to rescue it.
Make sure there is enough width on the Apiary gate to get the 'empty' hive through and away from the apiary.
Don't go into the kitchen where SWMBO is baking a cake until you are SURE there are no bees left on you.

So ... it was successful in the end, you've probably got the picture ... most of the bees seemed to find a home in one of the four hives. The LDH is outside the apiary and virtually all of the bees have now left and headed home to one of the polys (I've just been round and all's quiet on the Western Front .. no bees left on the outside of the hives, just a few lurking on the landing boards - and that wonderful low hum from the hives that's a bit like the hum you hear from overhead power lines in hot humid weather in summer). I put the lid on the box of cut off comb to keep the bees in there warm until morning - they seemed quite happy guzzling honey in the dark -sort of bee midnight feast - except they had probably been feasting since I finished about 3.00pm.

I've rearranged the apiary a bit so that I can get the LDH back in without removing the compost bins and there will even be enough space for another poly.

I took a few stings to the hands and lower arm and one to my head (thanks to SWMBO !) but it could have been a lot worse ..

I'm going to leave them all be for about 10 days now ...there's a virgin in one of the polys - I know because I saw her emerge from the QC when I was inspecting the hive and the other poly with two QC's in it now has empty queen cells so there's at least one in there.

The inside of the LDH was very clean - I was really surprised.. the mesh floor looked polished it was so clean. I'll post some photos tomorrow of the hive and you will see what needs to be done to it ...

I think SWMBO has probably got over it now .... I'll find out in the morning ! And no ... the front garden was not sorted ...

It's good fun, beekeeping, isn't it ?

 

[Obee1]

Well done Pargyle

I discovered the shortcomings of double gloves when one stung me through them yesterday. Then took a sting through my supposedly bombproof heavy duty pre-shrunk cotton suit. Yes they can sting through if your sleeve underneath rides up from your wrist. And most upsetting of all they can sting through a traditional round veil hat. I took a sting to forehead through the hat! Was expecting to get up this morning looking like the elephant man. Luckily the hat took the worst of it and I have a slightly weeping looking spot. My poor suit was full of stings. I would estimate about a hundred. Picked lots out before flinging in the washing machine. But even that didn't remove all of them.

Did I mention my bees are a tad grumpy at the moment?
One question though pargyle. How did one get in your veil? Sloppy zipmanship?

Obee

 

[Hivemaker.]

I took a few stings to the hands and lower arm and one to my head (thanks to SWMBO !) but it could have been a lot worse ..

I had one sting on my hand yesterday, think i trapped it between my fingers, inspections to 74 full colonies and a few mating nucs in the evening, lovely weather all day, shirt sleeves rolled up, no need for bee suit or veil.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It must be wonderful to be a bee whisperer.....sigh


Oh, and well done Pargyle.....a monumental effort.
Can't wait to the see the "improvements"

 

[Tremyfro]

I think we were right there with you ...every step of the way!
It's amazing how clean they keep the hive...how much honey do you think they have stored in the LDH in weight? Will you be adjusting the distance between the frame bottoms and the floor?
Mammoth task.....

 

[Finman]

Well done Pargyle

I discovered the shortcomings of double gloves when one stung me through them yesterday.
. My poor suit was full of stings. I would estimate about a hundred.

Obee

Bees must quite furious when they sniff the old stings in gloves

100 shings in clothes... You Must change your bee stock. To nurse such creatures is not wise.

 

[pargyle]

I was surprised at how few stings I got really considering the devastation of cutting three inches of free comb off the bottom of each frame and the fact that I had dragged the hive about 6 foot from its original position. Looking at my suit before it went in the wash last night there were no stings in the suit. The ones I got on my arms were in the gap that developed as time went on between the end of the glove and the sleeve of my suit - the elasticated loop from the end of the sleeve to round the thumb has come adrift on one side.

How the bee got inside my veil I have no idea ... the zip was well done up, there's no rips in the veil and the velcro flap was well seated - there's a small hole in the crutch area (perhaps too much information there !) but it would be a long crawl ...

First I knew was when I felt her crawling up my neck to my hair and then she was in my hair ... I didn't panic but figured if I went round to the back door of the house and pushed the veil back my OH could just flip her out and I'd be off again without removing gloves etc. Wrong .. I was encouraging my wife to just brush the bee out of my hair when the bee took flight .. wife flipped .. started waving her arms about and the bee stung ME !! (probably just as well as I'm not sure what 'er indoors would have said if the little beggar had stung her ...

Just had a look this morning and it appears to be business as usual .. couple of bees came up to greet me but not in attack mode - I think it was just a 'no, not again - bugger off' look at me.

So ... here's some boring photos of the now out of service LDH.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125609724@N03/sets/72157651256769844

And one photo of the new arrangement in my Apiary with three polys in a row, there's going to be the 4th one on the end in due course but it's a bit further than 3 feet away so it will be a gradual move. The boards they are sitting on are a temporary arrangement - I'm going to replace them with a properly constructed platform but it will be OK for a week or two.

Oh ... and that comb still sitting in the LDH is one of the original national frames that my bees were on after the swarm was collected - as you can see they had been very creative with the free comb on the bottom of it and you can also see how it protrudes below the bottom of the hive and into the 'well' where the mesh floor is .. that's the major part of the changes that need to be done to the hive. The comb had a a small patch of brood and a little honey so it had to go ... now in the freezer as a museum piece !

 

[Obee1]

Bees must quite furious when they sniff the old stings in gloves

100 shings in clothes... You Must change your bee stock. To nurse such creatures is not wise.

The bees are awful. OH is scared of them so I'm on my own with them. So many bees gather on front of veil I can't see through it. Keep having to walk away - a long way to get them to fly off. I am waiting for the buckfast queen I ordered from hivemaker which was destined for the other grumpy hive. However this hive (daughter of other queen) is marginally worse so will start by re queening this one. Dreading searching through for the unmarked queen though.

 

[Tremyfro]

The bees are awful. OH is scared of them so I'm on my own with them. So many bees gather on front of veil I can't see through it. Keep having to walk away - a long way to get them to fly off. I am waiting for the buckfast queen I ordered from hivemaker which was destined for the other grumpy hive. However this hive (daughter of other queen) is marginally worse so will start by re queening this one. Dreading searching through for the unmarked queen though.

I really hope you will ask someone from the Cardiff Beekepers to help you. Or perhaps the Beekeeper you got your bees from would come to help. It must be a nightmare! You must have to rally all your bravery! If you can't find someone...I will come and help you....I will wear two suits, two hats, lots of gloves....so don't be afraid to ask.

 

[Tremyfro]

Lovely pictures! I can see how clean the LDH is....incredible!

 

[Tom Bick]

If you know you would have problems lifting a full 14×12 bb of honey then you will probably struggle with one full of bees brood and honey. The top bb could very easily start to fill with honey and gradually get very heavy. How are you at lifting supers at shoulder height.

 

[Tremyfro]

If you know you would have problems lifting a full 14×12 bb of honey then you will probably struggle with one full of bees brood and honey. The top bb could very easily start to fill with honey and gradually get very heavy. How are you at lifting supers at shoulder height.

???.....

 

[jonnybeegood]

???.....

He's replying to the OP i think.

 

[Tremyfro]

He's replying to the OP i think.

Having difficulty following that comment. Pargyle wasn't talking about lifting 12x14 boxes was he?

 

[Tom Bick]

Quoted text regarding some confusion from my post hope it clears it up

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bees are awful. OH is scared of them .................. so will start by re queening this one. Dreading searching through for the unmarked queen though.

Make a nuc up with your new queen and combine that to the angry hive.
Much safer( for your new queen) in my opinion.