What makes a top bar hive more natural beekeeping?

[Ross]

I am interested in opinions on why the top bar hive is considered to be more natural than traditional beekeeping?

I use poly hives and was accosted today by a top bar hive beekeeper who was quite forceful in their opinion on poly hives being the root of all evil.

I can see the arguement for allowing the bees to draw their own comb, but that is a foundation or foundationless arguement not specifically to do with beehive design as most hives can be used without foundation if you want to.

I believe that poly hives offer advantages over wooden hives, keeping the bees warmer and drier. But again that is a construction material issue not a design issue, a top bar hive could easily be made out of poly.

This is not a have a go at top bar hives post, I think as long as you manage your bees properly and keep them healthy then how you keep your bees and what you keep them in is entirely up to you, after all they are your bees.

Many thanks

Ross

 

[madasafish]

I am interested in opinions on why the top bar hive is considered to be more natural than traditional beekeeping?

I use poly hives and was accosted today by a top bar hive beekeeper who was quite forceful in their opinion on poly hives being the root of all evil.

I can see the arguement for allowing the bees to draw their own comb, but that is a foundation or foundationless arguement not specifically to do with beehive design as most hives can be used without foundation if you want to.

I believe that poly hives offer advantages over wooden hives, keeping the bees warmer and drier. But again that is a construction material issue not a design issue, a top bar hive could easily be made out of poly.

This is not a have a go at top bar hives post, I think as long as you manage your bees properly and keep them healthy then how you keep your bees and what you keep them in is entirely up to you, after all they are your bees.

Many thanks

Ross

Any suggestion that a top bar hive is more natural is pure propaganda or ignorance. Or worse..

The hive the beekeeper uses is irrelevant - as long as it is dry and warm.

It's how you use it that is important.

(I know at least one foundationless National user who is what I would call a "natural beekeeper").

The argument is like judging people by the type of car they drive (or don't drive)

 

[clv101]

It's how you use it that is important.

Spot on, the hive is just a box. What the beek actually does is what matters.

 

[oliver90owner]

Next time you see this person and he/she starts on about natural, just ask if they are a beekeeper. If the answer is in the affirmative, the next question is how can a beekeeper keep bees in a man-made box and call it natural. It is an oxymoron!

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

It is an oxymoron!

Without the "oxy".

Dusty

 

[PBee]

 

[Chris B]

Next time your accuser accosts you, just inquire about their use of other petrochemical products, including their annual car mileage, foreign flights, plastics in the home, manmade materials in their clothing, throwaway packaging on half the stuff they buy etc. etc.

You'll probably find their "cause" is not really "save the bee" or "save the planet" but just to appear "holier than thou". You'll know that's the case by the amount of angry squirming when you expose their hypocrisy.

 

[Little John]

I am interested in opinions on why the top bar hive is considered to be more natural than traditional beekeeping?

This is not a have a go at top bar hives post ...

With the greatest respect Ross, you're missing the point completely.

The whole point of modern beekeeping is to replace the organised religion which used to provide a social focus for the majority of people's lives, but which for many is now missing.

The idea is to join a church: either the 'bugger the bees, I'm in it for the money (and am thus a cad) church', or the 'look at me, I'm a natural-beekeeper (and thus a very nice person) church'. Then - although you may not realise this at first - you are then under a clear obligation to proceed to slag-off the other lot.
What's not permissible, under any circumstances, is to have one foot in either camp - that is, to see merits in aspects from both of their houses. That smells far too much of 'thinking for yourself' which is expressly verbotten. Strict obedience to one or other of the party lines is absolutely mandatory, with no exceptions whatsoever.

Just as used to happen with religious conflict, forum threads then become the battleground. It's essential to maintain appropriate levels of prejudice at all times, and develop a sarcastic, barbed wit. Levels of superior expertise are usually demonstrated by the ability to dismiss beginner's enquiries with abrasive put-downs, thus ensuring that an appropriate lack of confidence results so that they never again have the temerity to challenge the consensus view.

You'll soon get the hang of it.

LJ

(tongue held very firmly in cheek)

 

[Ross]

 

[Tom Bick]

 

[Easy Beesy]

I agree.

There are zealots in both camps but IMO there is a middle road that learns from, and listens to, both sides and applies the best bits for them and their bees. I favour wood hives with foundationless frames but I wouldn't force that on anyone else, nor say its better than anyone else's setup - it just works for me and my bees.

 

[domino]

I use poly hives and was accosted today by a top bar hive beekeeper who was quite forceful in their opinion on poly hives being the root of all evil.

I can see the arguement for allowing the bees to draw their own comb, but that is a foundation or foundationless arguement not specifically to do with beehive design as most hives can be used without foundation if you want to.

If you wanted to do natural beekeeping just for the love of the bees wouldn't just keep them in a closed box that you never opened? I guess it wouldn't be as easy to sell books, videos, etc with that system.

Some people treat beekeeping like a competitive sport, probably those that have never played a competitive sport.

 

[clv101]

Next time your accuser accosts you, just inquire about their use of other petrochemical products, including their annual car mileage, foreign flights, plastics in the home, manmade materials in their clothing, throwaway packaging on half the stuff they buy etc. etc.

I think this line of questioning is unfair. It's reasonable for someone to fall short of their own standards. In fact if we aren't falling short on at least some of our standards, our standards just aren't high enough!

I make efforts to reduce use of petrochemical products, mileage, flights, plastics, man made clothing materials, throwaway packaging etc. but I'm far from meeting what I'd consider acceptable standards.

 

[Chris B]

I think this line of questioning is unfair. It's reasonable for someone to fall short of their own standards. In fact if we aren't falling short on at least some of our standards, our standards just aren't high enough!

I make efforts to reduce use of petrochemical products, mileage, flights, plastics, man made clothing materials, throwaway packaging etc. but I'm far from meeting what I'd consider acceptable standards.

It would be unfair on most reasonable people I agree. But if somebody chooses to harangue another beekeeper for using poly hives, they can't complain when the same yardstick is used on them.

 

[madasafish]

It would be unfair on most reasonable people I agree. But if somebody chooses to harangue another beekeeper for using poly hives, they can't complain when the same yardstick is used on them.

Anyone who harangues anyone ( defined as: Lecture at length in an aggressive and critical manner) on anything is hardly likely to change behaviour but most likely to achieve exactly the opposite result..


I am sure there are lots of close at home examples...

 

[Chris Luck]

Oh dear, I'm one of those sad people that has the lot, Dadants with and without foundation, Warré with TB or frames with and without foundation, KTBH, some hives that I never open, wooden hives and plastic hives, but one thing they all have in common is no treatments.

Chris

 

[Brosville]

This "holier than thou" argument cuts both ways - I'm sick and fed up to the back teeth with the largely totally ignorant tosh spouted about top bar hives and (more) natural beekeeping by the "ours is the one and only true faith" brigade - sadly many local associations are still populated by know-alls who will do their utmost to rubbish any attempts to "do it differently", which does them no credit at all.........
I personally wouldn't choose to use plastic hives (any more than I'd choose plastic furniture, window frames or loo seats) - there is also the issue of the fact that wood is indisputably recyclable and renewable, but there's no accounting for taste.........

 

[drumgerry]

On the contrary I find most local associations are populated by genuine beekeeping enthusiasts whose only desire is to do the best they can for their bees. Never come across this "one true faith" brigade you describe.

If asked about TBHs I'll describe what I perceive to be their problems (gained from my personal experience of them) and people can take or leave it. I don't think they're a particularly sensible choice for a beginning beekeeper as there's too much that can go wrong and a beginner has enough to cope with without having to practically destroy the colony to carry out an inspection - if the bees have cross-combed then that's essentially what you have to do. And I don't think the Barefoot Beekeeper makes any mention of the dangers of winter isolation starvation in the long horizontal design of a standard TBH.

In the process of changing from (not very sustainable) western red cedar to polystyrene nationals. Wood and its eco credentials are much over-rated. Think Brazilian Rosewood or Teak.

 

[VEG]

At the end of the day a hive is a hive, none are better than the other.

 

[victor meldrew]

Loops should have gone to specsavers
VM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk