What is happening to our queens

[Michael Palmer]

I've been hearing this for years. "Our queens don't last as they used to". Most are replaced by 6 months. What could it be? Well, my queens don't strangely disappear by 6 months of age. Or one year, or two.

I think it's about how the cells were reared and mated, and what selection selection criteria were used Any dink colony can build queen cells, but it takes a cell builder, packed with nurse bees to raise quality cells. It takes a good drone supply in the neighborhood for proper and sufficient mating. And then, the selection process...Just how can we select of longevity when we're requesting every colony, every year?

Well that's what is happening overhear. Using less than suitable cell starter/finishers. Maintaining too many mating nucs for the available drone supply. Harvesting the mated queens at day 12-14, whether or not there are eggs present. And most importantly, in my opinion, what the breeding stocks are selected for.

If it's a bug that lays an egg, doesn't, in any way, mean quality.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mint moth Whatever improvement tactic you employ your neighbours must do too.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That really depends on your point of view.
Often it's an excuse for the "do as I say" people....which is fine if you really do know what you're talking about, but, most people don't.

No.
It’s Steve’s opinion which is as valid as anybody else’s.

 

[B+.]

I've been hearing this for years. "Our queens don't last as they used to". Most are replaced by 6 months. What could it be? Well, my queens don't strangely disappear by 6 months of age. Or one year, or two.

I think it's about how the cells were reared and mated, and what selection selection criteria were used Any dink colony can build queen cells, but it takes a cell builder, packed with nurse bees to raise quality cells. It takes a good drone supply in the neighborhood for proper and sufficient mating. And then, the selection process...Just how can we select of longevity when we're requesting every colony, every year?

Well that's what is happening overhear. Using less than suitable cell starter/finishers. Maintaining too many mating nucs for the available drone supply. Harvesting the mated queens at day 12-14, whether or not there are eggs present. And most importantly, in my opinion, what the breeding stocks are selected for.

If it's a bug that lays an egg, doesn't, in any way, mean quality.

There are two parts:
1. Selecting worthy breeding material
2. Ensuring that they're fit (strong and healthy) enough to succeed (in sufficient numbers) to influence the next generation.

This is what I've been saying too. It's a circular process. You just keep doing the same thing over, and over, again.

 

[B+.]

Mint moth Whatever improvement tactic you employ your neighbours must do too.

This is only true so long as she (or anyone else) relies on open mating in an uncontrolled environment. Select your stock and take control of the mating process and everything changes! Your neighbour can do whatever they want and it doesn't affect you because you control what you produce.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is only true so long as she (or anyone else) relies on open mating in an uncontrolled environment. Select your stock and take control of the mating process and everything changes! Your neighbour can do whatever they want and it doesn't affect you because you control what you produce.

Indeed it does and if going along the route of II that’s fine. Not everybody wants to of course.

 

[B+.]

Indeed it does and if going along the route of II that’s fine. Not everybody wants to of course.

Quite right...they don't have to...but, then, they are reliant on whatever random drones their virgin queens mate with. That is exactly the situation we are in in this country. It's no use talking about improvement if you don't exert control over the mating process and test your results.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No.
It’s Steve’s opinion which is as valid as anybody else’s.

 

[B+.]

No.
It’s Steve’s opinion which is as valid as anybody else’s.

Absolutely...but there are consequences to whatever approach you adopt.

 

[Swarm]

No.
It’s Steve’s opinion which is as valid as anybody else’s.

Thank you.
As I said in one reply, beekeeping is a selfish business and I'm certain that Paul will point out that mine is a selfish opinion as well. Maybe that is the case but it is driven by my love of our bees and pretty much all other fauna and flora. I like to tread lightly and try to do my bit for the creatures we share this life with. Not a tree hugger or Hippy either, I just think we dabble with far too much, playing god and creating synthetic bees via invasive, artificial means is a perfect example.
The only consequences I see if we were to adopt the work together approach would be a stable, local population after the genetic mixing pot has time to settle down and breathe again.

 

[Murox]

B+. wrote “Select your stock and take control of the mating process and everything changes!”

Selection of stock and controlling the mating process is fundamental to just about any animal breeding if you are trying to select traits in or out. Both the male and female lines are equally important. AI or rather II is just one way of achieving that selection and control. There are others and they require specific conditions/criteria.

Without control its a bit like a pack of dogs roaming about and just mating with whatever comes there way, no selection at all for traits just pot luck - what you get are heinz 57 varieties, some good, some middling and others.

Going part way on selection i.e. just selecting the female line but then allowing her to be mated by all and sundry might be considered by some as 'betterment' (please define). However increasing the chances of good male genes being passed on is another step in the right direction only as long as you have been able to select
the males (or know their origin).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Without control its a bit like a pack of dogs roaming about and just mating with whatever comes there way, no selection at all for traits just pot luck .

Doesn't help if you're working hard to form a pack of decent utility hard running foxhounds then someone comes along and chucks a poodle into the kennels

 

[pargyle]

Doesn't help if you're working hard to form a pack of decent utility hard running foxhounds then someone comes along and chucks a poodle into the kennels

Would that be a Poogle or a Beadle then ? Sounds like the next fashionable pooch after they get bored with their Labradoodles ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Would that be a Poogle or a Beadle then ? Sounds like the next fashionable pooch after they get bored with their Labradoodles ...

Neither?
The hounds would eat it?

 

[B+.]

Neither?
The hounds would eat it?

oh, now come on...your introducing "wolves" now....let's not go down the "re-wilding" path!

 

[Ian123]

If you want a far more intelligent dog then go with the poodle, poodles are also rated as working retrievers in and out of water. But then what do I know I have a Corgi that just likes to herd my boy.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you want a far more intelligent dog then go with the poodle, poodles are also rated as working retrievers in and out of water. But then what do I know I have a Corgi that just likes to herd my boy.

Many years ago I had a rescue Standard. He was extremely bright and a wonderful retriever. We used to give him the odd haircut but largely left him au naturelle

 

[Erichalfbee]

oh, now come on...your introducing "wolves" now....let's not go down the "re-wilding" path!

UKs not big enough but we could do with some hedge rewilding

 

[B+.]

UKs not big enough but we could do with some hedge rewilding

Not a good time to have small domestic pets then?

 

[B+.]

B+. wrote “Select your stock and take control of the mating process and everything changes!”

Selection of stock and controlling the mating process is fundamental to just about any animal breeding if you are trying to select traits in or out. Both the male and female lines are equally important. AI or rather II is just one way of achieving that selection and control. There are others and they require specific conditions/criteria.

Without control its a bit like a pack of dogs roaming about and just mating with whatever comes there way, no selection at all for traits just pot luck - what you get are heinz 57 varieties, some good, some middling and others.

Going part way on selection i.e. just selecting the female line but then allowing her to be mated by all and sundry might be considered by some as 'betterment' (please define). However increasing the chances of good male genes being passed on is another step in the right direction only as long as you have been able to select
the males (or know their origin).

It seems that some people are against the very concept of selection. I don't see how they can be against controlled mating while, at the same time, talking about improvement. It doesn't make sense.